C-Forum

NICE!

Of course, between the foam behind the paddler, and the airbag around the knees, it's practically a C1 .... but looks like a ton of fun (er TUB of Fun) regardless!!

As long as they don't put a skirt on it. (Then I'd have to track one down one of these years for the 'CBoat Museum' ...).

Adam

at what point do you stop calling something an open canoe, and not just another rodeo boat????

for instance...

if it doesn't have sides is it still a canoe?

philcanoe wrote:at what point do you stop calling something an open canoe, and not just another rodeo boat????

for instance...

if it doesn't have sides is it still a canoe?

Phil... it's 'free'style... Long as the top is open... it's a canoe.

At what point is a race boat too long?...

Craig

Good luck to all going to Worlds... woulda, shoulda, coulda Craig.

Makes me think of a variation on "rednecks with beer".

"Hey, Bubba! Hold my beer and gimme that angle grinder over thar! Now, watch this!"

Voila! A new canoe.



KNeal

oh i see, if you can get water in - it's a open canoe

so like maybe i could take a Wheelboy, leave the skirt off... and then it's rodeo time ...... the top would be open!!! So like if the skirts on a Salsa it's a C1, if not it's a canoe (excuse the US slang)

Craig, R there rules? there once was?

The rules are:
Paddler has to be kneeling and use a single bladed paddle
3800 cm2 open area
minimum open length of 80 cm with an open depth of 40cm
inflatable flotation in the ends (no sealed bulkheads)
the boat must be able to hold 40 liters of water with the paddler kneeling in the boat

philcanoe wrote:oh i see, if you can get water in - it's a open canoe

so like maybe i could take a Wheelboy, leave the skirt off... and then it's rodeo time ...... the top would be open!!! So like if the skirts on a Salsa it's a C1, if not it's a canoe (excuse the US slang)

Craig, R there rules? there once was?

Yes...

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject: New OC1 Freestyle Boat Rules & Specifications--proposed

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On January 21st 2005 in Penrith Australia the first meeting on Open Canoe regulations since 1996 took place. In attendance where Jeremey Blanchard and Gary Findlay from Australia, Stefan Paetsch, Tobias Huther and Markus Hibel from Germany, James Weir and Jamie Burbeck from Great Britan, Paul Danks and Marc Scriver from Canada, and Craig Smerda and Eli Helbert from the USA. We had several discussions about how an "open canoe" in regards to freestyle should be defined. We decided to meet three days later at the course, take measurements and set standardized regulations from the canoes that we where competeing in at this worlds. The boats that where measured where the Robson CUFly, the Esquif Salsa, and two modified Pyranha Spanishflys. At this second meeting we gained additional representitives Natalie Caulder from New Zealand and Jordi Domengo from Spain. One of the biggest discussions involved the possibility of using sealed bulkheads instead of airbags. We also considered the added cost of sealed bulkheads. We debated comfort and useage of foam in outfitting versus foam used simply to fill the boat for displacement purposes. The group could see where starting with sealed bulkheads could lead to boats being completely filled out. The groups main concern was that the boats shouldn't be viewed as big C1's or "kneel on tops". Most of the decisions where unanimous; the sealed bulkhead being the exception. As a group it was determined that we all enjoyed the challenges and techniques used when a canoe is dry and full of water. There was a great deal of discussion of how much water an Open Canoe should hold. Each competitors boat was measured with the airbags inflated and the paddler in his boat. The lowest amount of volume was around 37 liters and the highest being 68 liters. The group decided that the "box" (center of the boat where the paddle is) dimensions should be the key and what you do with the ends is open for experimentation. The proposed dimensions and rule clarifications being sent to the International Freestyle Committee are:

--One single boat is to be used for the entire competition
--All competitors must wear a bouancy aid (PFD) and helmet
--Competitors must be kneeling and using a single bladed paddle
--Boat must be able to hold 40 litres of water with the paddler kneeling in the boat
--The open depth of the boat must be at least 40cm for a length of 80cm
--The overall open surface area must be at least 3800cm
--Bouancy for the boat ends is to be inflateable (bulkheads not permitted)


It was also proposed that the IFC rules be changed to read:

--The competitor may re-enter the hole/wave as many times as they like during the 45 second time period. In features where it is helpful OC1 competitors may assist each other back up the eddy without penalty.

It was also proposed that if 75% of the OC1 class feels unsafe or unable to perform at a feature they may moveto a more suitable feature, preferably on the same river or as close as possible to the rest of the event. This possibility is to be avoided and used only as a last resort.


If you have any feedback or would care to have your input heard you can reply to this or email me at XXXXXXXX and I will pass it along to the others for you.

Craig Smerda


(That took me a few minutes to find)

The only things that didn't make into the rules are the bit about moving to a different spot- though that's kind of common sense and could probably be fought out with the organizers, and the part about using the same boat for the entire comp. Interestingly, Squirt is the only class where you have to use the same boat throughout....

I bet I could get my boat down to only holding about 30 liters- and probably will after Worlds.

On a side note, or rather to get back on topic, I'm not convinced about trying to turn a kayak into and OC-1. My boat design theory is that there's a critical amount of both volume and rocker that you need to make the boat work- stay on the wave/hole, and keep the ends out of the water when it's full. I don't think that a kayak hull has enough rocker or volume to make it work. But I guess I'll find out in a few days...

Live from the Ottawa
Jeremy

cool...

knew there was rules, being present at what might have been the 1st rules session (Augsburg/Eiskanal)1995 ...just had not kept up with current freestyle (rodeo rules)

those were held as a result of Ian's Massive boat (not sure which one)...it had a lower deck than bow, so water would pour out, the 1st we had ever saw...Corran entered in it, and everybody went "oh large steaming pile of dog doo"...and a rules discussion erupted...finally since there was no rule against, it was AOK... and then in 1996 formal rules

Craig Smerda wrote:
... At what point is a race boat too long?...

roughly ever since the Hahns-Sweet

philcanoe wrote:...it had a lower deck than bow, so water would pour out

I think there's A LOT of potential for having "self bailing" freestyle open boats- but for competition the rules prevent it. Then again, this very well could be the last worlds for OC-1, so any future development could be purely for fun and unencumbered by "rules"

rules, they sure can ruin it...

had the same ideas about self bailing canoes with Frankie Hubbard...we did some late night brain storming, even came up with a couple that might really do good... just never did go forward, he didn't want to, you know rules

Speaking of the Departure...(Ian's boat)...

Anyone have one (or a Departure 2) and want to sell it?

One of these days I'd like one for the Museum:)

Since when do a bunch of Brits, German, Austrailian whatevers' freestylers get to define what a open boat is anyway? Personally I think all the quakes,spanishflys,taureau's and the like are a cross between an openboat and a C1, : meaning they are a breed of their own. US open boaters became frustrated with some of the limitations of traditional canoe designs and came up with these hybrids. BUT unwilling to admit they paddle anything other than a canoe/openboat , the canoe definition was stretched so far its now unrecognizeable from its original. Then the marketers got their pins going tried to persuade traditional canoeists' into accepting these hybrids as canoes by creating competions and their associated hero's and icons. Ill admit its a great bunch of boats, but why not call them what they are? I think is because the manufactures thinks they can sell a lot more of them if they can convince the the buying public that they actually are openboats. IMHO it doesn't fly.