C-Forum

I remember a while ago someone posted some footage of offside roll. Where is it or is there ant other footage of such roll.
Thanks
B

It is on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adHrpKnyAgs

And another......

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTO1yZYG_b4&NR=1

Did anyone watch the C1 flatwater racing vids? That was pretty interesting also.
When I was learning to roll years ago I made an off side roll, but since I am too disoriented when I try deliberately.

Jim

Too "disoriented." Now there's a good excuse...er...I mean explanation. I thought I couldn't do cross rolls any more because I got too old and fat!

John

I never really understood the advantage of doing a offside roll, when i can back deck roll twice as fast, and not have my shoulder in a possible dislocation setting...

OC1 or C1.

I'm not certain when back-deck rolls were developed, but I suspect that they are a "short boat" roll that came out of freestyle paddling and thus are a much more recent (i.e. within the last 20 years) development than off-side or cross rolls. Certainly you never saw or heard of back-deck rolls 20 years ago, either in C-1 or K-1.

Off-side rolls are still used by some in rolling a C-2 (i.e. one paddler rolls on his on-side and the other does an off-side [cross] roll). It's a quicker C-2 roll, but doesn't have as much power or longevity as the second paddler switching sides and both rolling up on the same side with standard on-side rolls. However, somewhere on this Board there is some footage posted of C-2 runs at the U.S. Slalom Team trials at Charlotte a few weeks ago. You'll see an orange C-2 (The Beijing Express - Rick Powell & Casey Eichfeld - current National Champions and the #1 C-2 on the U.S. Team) flip in an eddy and roll up with Casey doing a cross roll in the stern.

Being an old fart who still paddles a long boat, I have to confess that I haven't tried a back deck roll, but, from what I recall from seeing others do so, I suspect that it wouldn't work for rolling a C-2. It also appears to me that it would be difficult to execute in a long boat. Certainly that may be two reasons why off-side rolls haven't completely gone out of practice.

Besides, do we really learn all those different types of rolls because we expect to use them on a river, or do we just learn them for the fun of it? In a "combat" situation, I've only used an off-side roll (back when I could do one) in C-2, never in C-1. However, I certainly had fun messing around in the pool doing them, as I did with hands-rolls, which have similarly remained an unused (and now lost) river skill. However, that didn't make them any less fun to learn and fool around with.

John

A quick note on back deck rolls...a GREAT example of back deck rolls is in Kent Ford's "C1 Challenge" from the mid-80's...he does a few back deck rolls in his slalom boat without getting his hair wet:)

I don't recall any off-side rolls, though.

Imagine being stuck in a hole upside down with your onside facing upstream, a back deck roll has no use in this situation. Unless you get washed out of the hole what other options would there be than an offside/cross roll? I have never had to attempt this but have also seen the one hand roll in this situation, aslo have never attempted or seen this in person. I agree the Backdeck roll is fast, especially if used with momentum--ie windowshading to your offside. I would like to learn the offside roll mainly for fun but also for the what if situation. In the 2 posted videos it certainly looks easy enough but when I try it is not, I certainly haven't tried very many. Learning new 'tricks' I agree is a lot of times just to learn them.
Thanks,
B

Adam:

If Kent Ford did back-deck rolls in the mid-80s, then I stand corrected on both origin and utiliity in a long boat.

Thanks for the correction!

John

I don't have to imagine. I was caught in a rather violent hole earlier this spring flipped to my offside and side surfing in an inverted position. Out of desperation and pure instinct I attempted a crossbow roll and with the help of the hydrolic I came back up in a bouncing offside surf. I repeated this motion again and decided the best way out was beneath the hole. since then I have comitted to learn the offside roll intentionally. It does have real aplications on the river. By the way this is in an OC. do any of you OC 1ers have a good crossbow roll? I'm workin' on it.

Got myself stuck in Cueball on Cheat Canyon last weekend on my offsides messin around in the Zephyr. I hung out for a sec then realized that it wasn't going to let me go.
I got pissed and thought "time to swim, F@#%!!!"
then I figured what the heck, I'd give it a go or two before bailing.
I got up just enough to get some air then back down again, Getting frustrated with the offsides thing I decided to switch hands and roll.
Bingo! up and out. not technically an offsides roll, but I'm a lefty and switched to my right to get up.
I have been working on it some in my wheelboy, but it was a different thing alltogether in the Zephyr

Squeaky -

I've noticed in rolling my Zephyr that there is a big difference between having the air bags inflated and having them *really* inflated - normally inflated in the parking lot + cold water = a really sluggish roll, it hangs up with the gunwale just coming out of the water. Top the bags off and the boat rolls markedly easier. You?

Scott

Very much so.
it works especially well if your lacing is a bit loose to allow the bags to protrude above the deck a little.

We happened to capture the two rolls I was talking about on video :

Zephy roll with slack bags :

http://www.julie-robert.com/Saluda/05-3 ... roll1.html

Zephyr roll with the bags topped off :

http://www.julie-robert.com/Saluda/05-3 ... roll2.html

Seeing these now, I see when the bags were slack, even just that little bit, it hung up on its side going over. I don't remember other boats being quite as sensitive, but maybe that is the fog of time...