Carbon conversion outfitting...maybe

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:52 pm

I seem to have bought too much carbon my last trip to the composite material store and I'm thinking of making a conversion outfitting with it.

I'm thinking of a couple layers on the inside bottom of the boat for stiffness and to have something reliable to glue foam to and then making a beam with a seat, knee blocks and indentions for the front and rear foam pillars, then connecting this to the bottom piece. Also I'm thinking of making the framework for a bulkhead also, very similar to the Pagan bulkhead.

Has anyone tried to do something like this before? Also does anyone have any suggestions about the layup for the sheet across the bottom? I'm thinking of 2 carbon and 1 sglass on top of it in case it tries to splinter from a nasty impact, although I assume the hull will take the "sharpness" of any blow that could splinter it.

Any ideas, suggestions, wisecracks?

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:33 pm

Ideally, you would do a two layer Kevlar patch inside the boat, but you don't have Kevlar.

Do you already have carbon in the hull? In that case, you will not lose the ability to see damage by adding carbon.

Walsh · Post by **Walsh** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:41 pm

Joe Stumpfel uses this system in his playboats . . . he was selling a Project 52 with the carbon in it a short time ago.

I think he used carbon primarily for the added stiffness and 'pop' (not that I have any idea what that feels like) and secondarily as an attachment point for a Dagger pedestal.

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:44 pm

Nothing is laid down yet.

It's going to be in a plastic boat so I should be able to see any damage from the bottom of the hull.

I'm curious as to how much stiffness it will add, I've heard of some yakkers doing the carbon thing on the bottom of the boat to stiffen it up but I don't know what layup they used.

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:46 pm

I wouldn't even worry about the glass... it's not as good to work with if you have it on carbon. as long as you use enough epoxy, the carbon wont splinter,it will just crack, and then you can sand it down, and repair it. I seriously don't think you need to worry about the splinters... especially if you intend to add more things of carbon on top of the original sheet. I would just go with the two of Carbon, and then make a layup/mold of what you want to do out of foam, like the really cheap stuff like the blue construction foam, and then let it set there, and then put it in the boat. ask trevor or Chris Soileau, they are the masters at making things out of composites that are weird shapes...
here is the website for them.
http://www.treybay.com/
Hope all is well, and what ever you do works out...
-isaac

msims · Post by **msims** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:59 pm

http://playak.com/article.php?sid=1128

And if you get really good at making them, you can sell them for $428 USD too!

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:14 pm

Thanks for the link to the Maddog site, I never thought of using a ziplock bag to do some of my stuff. That's going to make some jobs a lot easier.

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:59 pm

if you have any specific questions for Trevor, I am seeing him on a daily basis at the moment as he and Chris are out here in CO for the JO? U.S. cup thing, and so I have access to the master mind. but yeah, I have learned so much from talking to him, and looking at how he outfits his boat. it is remarkably clean. Hope all is well.
if you have any questions just pm or email me at bearboater at gmail.com...

also, if you do anything with the filler, which the pedestial might be easier with, use alot, it makes the job so much easier for forming things, and if you do do the padestial/bulkhead thing, I recommend at least 3 layers of fabric, what ever kind, I think carbon is easier to with than kev, because of the stiffness you can achieve, but it is also more expensive, so you could mix layers... one of each, the kev really helps for longevity, but they do have totally different flex patterns. and remember always go in the bias of the fabric, so cut diagonally, makes a huge difference in torsional stiffness. I hope I didn't just rant incontrollably, but that I gave a little insight.
cheers
-isaac

mshelton · Post by **mshelton** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:08 pm

I appreciate it Bear, as for the bias of the fabric. The stuff I got is a twill weave and according to the guy at the shop the direction in which it's laid shouldn't matter with that weave.

Anybody know if that's true or not?

bearboater · Post by **bearboater** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:16 pm

all I know about twill weave stuff is that it's way more pliable... and moves around corners/bends easier. I would shoot off a quick email to Jennifer or Davey about this, they are the masters, Davey makes patches look like that was the way the boat builder wanted the boat to look...
I am pretty convinced they know everything. between them and trevor, there isn't a question that can't be answered.
cheers
-isaac

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:44 pm

I think that twill fabric should still be bias cut for most purposes, because twice as many fibers will cross the stress lines. But there are certainly exceptions, and the exceptions will apply to twill, satin weave, round weave, etc.

The key issue is, where are the stress zones, and how many fibers do you want to have crossing the stress zones?