Need to replace gunwales and such

[PAC]

Okay so now I have an older mad river explorer (I picked up for free). Its in fairly good shape, all things considered, but needs some TLC. If things work out this boat will become a tripper / white water downriver racer (if that makes sense).
Looks sort of like this http://www.madrivercanoe.com/zoom_boat. ... _16_rx.jpg# but is an older model and is "sand" in color. I figure its this one since it has (had) wooden gunwales.
Anyway, the one of the folks that had prior possession left it sit out in the weather, on the ground, and did not treat the gunwales, seats (caned) or thwart. Therefore the gunwales, seats, and thwarts are in bits and pieces now. Rotted out and fragile so they all need replaced. Additionally, the boat has minor crease damage on boat sides of the stern due to snow loading up on it and the pressure flexing the hull out. That I figure is an easy glass fix once the supporting structure is in place.
So based on this brief history what is the best course of action for replacing the gunwales? Since replacing with wood requires 16'+ pieces of wood do I:
Order from Mad River?
Request Ash replacement or plastic?
Look to local lumber yards for Ash?
See if I can track down from local timber companies to have "cut my own" (most likely have to be white oak instead of ash). Would require more planning and be "green".
Other options?
Also thoughts on this boat being a good boat for down river racing (not slalom)?
Thanks!
Paul C.

[Mikey B]

I'm pretty sure I have a set of vinyl gunnels off a friends then new Explorer that we put ash gunnels on if you want to go that route.
I kind of like White oak for gunnels...slightly heavier but very rot resistant.
The explorer is a pretty slow boat...probably not quite as slow as the old Dagger Legend 16...would do alright against OT Trippers and the like.

Mike

[sbroam]

It's a great "all rounder" - not too slow, not too tippy, etc. Probably won't win races, but it works!

I've replaced gunwales about 5-6 times now - I have never bought them permade, the shipping costs >> material costs, unless you have a local dealer that can get them shipped with some boats. Make your own! We have been able to get decent Ash in 16' lengths from local woodworking suppliers and cabinet shops. One even ripped them to size for me and we rounded the corners with a router after we put them on the boat. We've also ripped our own. Not all Ash is created equal - examine it for tightness of grain and knots. The last we got was probably not quite the grad MR uses (or used to) but it was fine and we made them a little bigger than need be any how.

To put them on, all you need a 4-5 clamps, two drills (one to drill the pilot holes, another to shoot the screws - makes it got a lot faster) and about 3-4 hours (less?). I think I've written that up here before.

[kaz]

PAC,
Green wood is ok to use. Do not use oak, very heavy and will eventually splinter, just like mahogany will. If you can't find ash, my next choice would be birch, after that, maple. You may be able to find some 16'ers at your local Home Despot. I'm a firm believer in supporting the local sawmill though.
JKaz

[adamin]

I have a source for Ash as well as Cherry

I can procure other woods as well, but those are dry and set to go...

[madmike]

I have ash gunnels 16' long sawn to match the ones I took off of my ME. Central NY 13460. handcutdovetail atsign netscape dot net

[PAC]

Thanks folks... please keep the thoughts coming.
I have some feelers out for local wood but the Ash here is under stress from an imported bug. So it doesn't look good at least from the few calls I made.
Talked to Keith Backlund too and he was very informative.
Kaz - Keith said white oak would work but stated same as you... options there is coating with west system then applying a number of coats high quality marine lacquer. Works good but makes things just that much heavier. Mahogany is way too pricy but the tip on birch will be followed up on. Plenty of maple about too.
Adam as for Cherry - if I remember correctly it has a tendency to snap when taking compression (think Paul and Jacob in a canoe, on class II-III, near rocks), but I might be wrong.
I'll be in touch shortly after I figure out the local availabilty. Another issue I've found one local mill is only selling bulk and overseas (china).
Anyway I appreciate it all so keep on posting thoughts...please!!!
Paul C.

[sdbrassfield]

Paul,

If you want to have your gunwales made, Cypress is a good wood for the boat. It won't rot, and the bugs do not like it. It is not quite as hard as ash though. It is a beautiful wood when urethaned / finished...

[Big Al]

I have a similar problem with my wood gunneled Zoom. The bow and stern both have plastic covers (about 8-10inches of gunnel covered?) and as I have been hanging the boat upside down on straps under my back deck, water collects from time to time and sits in the channel created by the plastic leading to wood rot. I now have it lie a bit on its side so the water drains out. But I have not done that religiously so the wood in the stern on one side under the plastic cover has completely broken off and a crack is expanding up the gunnel towards the bow (still along way to go, thankfully!
Probably magic duct tape will hold it while I figure what to do or will super PAC have figured it out what I should do??
I believe I need about a foot and a half of gunnel replacement.
Any ideas?

[PAC]

Hummmm.... Al. I'll try to look at the Zoom asap. I also have to get the Shaman back to you - that gunwale issue has been resolved.
I'm starting to get good at this but not nearly as good as I "wood" like.
Oh and the Explorer's gunwale issue is WAY different. In fact when I hold peices in my hand I can crush the wood and let it just flake apart. Last time I did a full replace was 20+ years ago on a cedar strip (oak and cedar laird) and that is a different use boat.
Both cane seats are gonzo (not slight here Martin ) and the thwart is GONE on it's starboard side.
So it all needs replaced. Of course you are welcome to come over and help with rebuild, drink beer and tell me I'm doing it all wrong!
Paul C.

[Jim P]

When I bought my wood gunneled Shaman back in 2000, I took off the deckplates, loosend all the screws and oiled several coats on the wood - getting good coverage between the wood and the hull. Then I put everything back togther and never had a worry with the wood other than re oiling the exposed and worn areas now and then.

Drill a hole in the end of the deck plate to help drain water when upside down will also help. If you worry about water entering the boat when surfing, glue a small flap of vinyl over the hole - glue down the front end only so it will hinge up when upside down and let things drain, when water comes over the plate it will push down the flap . Of course if water is comming over the plate you got bigger issues with water in the boat than a small hole.

[pblanc]

There are quite a few sources for thwarts and seats and seat hardware but a reasonably priced one is Essex Industries:www.essexindustries.org. If the frames of your cane seats are still sound, sand and revarnish them and convert them to web seats, which are almost as comfortable, and last a lot longer. Here is a link with instructions: http://www.eruditium.org/pete/repair_seat.html.

[philcanoe]

Used cypress on a couple boats it looked real good. It was easy to get in clean lengths, but it splintered real bad. Keep getting splinters under my fingernails. The splinters also tended to fester, real painful. Would not use again. Used the remainder on a porch.

[sbroam]

...and oiled several coats on the wood - getting good coverage between the wood and the hull. ...

Ditto on the oil - I use teak oil and put several heavy coats on - it will soak it up. You will probably be able to reuse all those screws. No polyurethane!

[mex_oc]

I found this hope it helps
http://www.rapidmedia.com/onlineissues/ ... 87c8d375f4


Juan