River etiquette question / survey

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:44 pm

I had a great time at GAF, even though I only got to paddle the Nanty once

. There were plenty of OCs out there, more than a few C1s, and a gazillion 'yaks out there.

Of course, all this created a lot of traffic and long lines at most of the play features. More than once, while waiting to get into a feature, butt boaters would pop into the feature from the top instead of getting in line with the rest of the crowd. I ended up not playing in some features, just because of the time to play.

Once, though, after having my spot in line taken about 3 times in a row and having to back off my attainment, I took the wave and lightly bumped a 'yak that had "dropped in".

What is the correct thing to do if you're on an OC-1 and you're in traffic? Should I:

A) Wait patiently, there can only be a couple hundred more 'yaks coming down the river?

B) Go when it's my turn and give them a little bit of room?

C) Aggressively take the feature when it's my turn and give any 'yaks practice with their combat roll?

D) Embrace the kayak culture (ie. comment how cute they look in that skirt and ask if they're going to the party at GAF)?

squeakyknee · Post by **squeakyknee** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:45 pm

C C C C C C C my brother!

amollohan99 · Post by **amollohan99** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:54 pm

If they were really bad I'd definatley go with option C.

MikeOC1 · Post by **MikeOC1** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:17 pm

C. and I dont mind reminding them there is a line.

philinasheville · Post by **philinasheville** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:21 pm

I agree...C is my answer. You have to be a little aggressive when it's crowded.

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:38 pm

squeakyknee wrote:C C C C C C C my brother!

I thought that might be the correct answer

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:42 pm

amollohan99 wrote:If they were really bad I'd definatley go with option C.

this particular boater may not have been that bad...was just the last one to do it before I "took" my turn. I came into the corner of the wave, as far to the left as I could go and stil get on. I really let the water suck me in the last couple of feet and he was working the wave back and forth...I went in quietly, but didn't abandon my line and peel out this time.

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:07 pm

Standard river etiquette calls for boats descending the rapid to be given the right of way (i.e. surfers to yield to river runners in order to allow their safe and unobstructed descent).

However, "Dropping in" is one of those grey areas of paddling etiquette. In keeping with the "yield to descending boats" rule, some people feel that manuvers like "dropping in," which are done in the course of an initial descent down the river, are legitimate as long as they aren't pushed to an extreme (e.g. you don't become a wave or hole hog, you get to the end of the line after you get off the feature, etc.).

IMO, it's a feature by feature (and sometimes paddler by paddler) judgement call. Yielding for paddlers who are clearly novices who might have difficulty avoiding you if you're surfing is wise and courteous. Hopping on a large wave to share it with a confident and skilled boater who clearly can handle the situation is just fine. Letting someone drop in on a small feature who was clearly waiting upstream for the preceding surfer to finish and who doesn't hog the feature shows that you're politely tolerant. Nudging off the wave a hole hog who drops in and then parks long enough to read War & Peace is justifiable aggressiveness.

Context is everything!

John

msims · Post by **msims** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:13 pm

I'm w/ John. I haven't normally experienced huge lineups like you're talking about but if I were coming down from upstream and saw a huge lineup I'd pull into the eddy, not try to catch it on the fly... but may depend on the feature, eddyline, paddler, etc.

Generally yakkers yield to boats because of their size, they may whine and complain a bit, but they generally recognize that they have more play time than an OC will ever have. So they shouldnt be too put out w/ option C IMO...

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:14 pm

Mike and Phil...thanks for the replies. I thought I might need to be a bit more aggressive.

Whether it's my boat or my lack of skill, I have to start a little further back than some of the less edgy boats out there when heading upstream. I need enough momentum so I can keep my angle and not spin out

Sometimes, people with shorter more rounded boats squeeze in while I'm working my way up.

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:44 pm

John Coraor wrote: Nudging off the wave a hole hog who drops in and then parks long enough to read War & Peace is justifiable aggressiveness.

Context is everything!

John

That's pretty much the way I approached it. It was a small feature, so it didn't have the lines of Surfer's or Whirlpool...maybe 5 people waiting. Both the 'yakers were confident and shared the wave for a minute or so after dropping in. After the first had peeled out for maybe a minute or so, I commited to my attainment.

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:34 pm

I hear you about needing to start your entry further back. To a certain extent I think that's endemic to C-boats, but gets even more necessary when you're also in a long boat.

It seems like butt boaters in short boats often start their entry onto a wave almost even with the trough, paddling out very perpendicular to the current and then turning up just prior to - or even after! - hopping out on the wave.

Often when I line up in my long boat (a slalom C-1) near the eddyline well below the trough in order to get some momentum and a shallow exit angle onto the wave, some butt boater in a playboat starts to pull out ahead of me, not realizing that I'm trying to engage from that position. Despite lacking the bulk of an OC-1, I usually manage to convince them of the error of their ways and get them to back off.

John

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:24 pm

Well, my Ocoee is probably less particular than your slalom C-boat, but with the ends shaved down and the thwarts shortened a bit, there is definitely an edge to the boat.

I have to take a shallower cut than OCs with less of a chine or more rocker. Lines I would cross on an Ovation or Impulse with no issues will leave me looking at my tail lights on this boat

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:34 pm

This is not a new problem and I will once again make my modest proposal.

sdbrassfield · Post by **sdbrassfield** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:39 pm

C - surf the yak...