C-Forum

Hello boys and girls.

This was posted on another board but I thought I would share it with you.

Jenny Right-Side wrote:Well I received a load of emails requesting Colin write a How-to on that awesome double pump system in his Vertige X (ahem Grant).

So here it is folks! If you ever thought about building an automated pump system in your open canoe, Colin has typed out the step-by-step instructions especially for YOU!

Enjoy!

http://www.riverjunkies.net/howto/openb ... system.pdf

Jen

I am looking for any feedback on the howto ... good or bad.

It took me about three hours to write it and a few more to correct the spelling mistakes.

You might want to check out the rest of the DIY articles on the same site http://www.riverjunkies.net/diy.html

One thing about pump capacities, on the packages, they will give you the pump efficiencies in regards to the length of hose you are pumping through.

The longer the hose, the higher the hydrostatic pressure it will be to overcome with the pump. The 1250 gph is w/o a discharge hose, I think.

The shorter the discharge hose the more efficient the pump .

The batteries that I purchased (marine type) weigh about 25 oz and cost about $25 American.

For a Probe 12 II, I used one pump.

Your pump system looks good. I only have one suggestion which is to coat your switches with "Liquid Electrical Tape" which can be bought at Home Depot. The weakest part of any pump system is the switch getting wet. I haven't found a box yet that will stay completely dry 100% of the time. Liquid Electrical Tape looks and smells like neoprene cement. As far as I know it might be the same stuff.

Jim

I am going to be placing an order for some custume made waterprof toggle switchs. If any one is interested in buying one send me a email price will be depending on how many I order. I want to order alot of these switchs so I can get the price down cheaper the single price is around $30.00us so I would like to get 100 so I maybe sell them for maybe $15.00

I have used these switchs for over 3 years and never a problem with them geting wet
the contact side is epoxyed and the switch side has a waterprof membrain around it can be cycled under water and needs no kind of added waterprofing
if anyone is interested in getting 1 or more of these let me know soon. If enough of yall are interested I will order 100 of them for everyone. If not I will just buy 5 or 10 for myself

will also sell complete pump systems

email me at oc1dude@yahoo.com

I have never had an issue with the case. I probably have 50 days on the river with it so far. It has been down some long swims. It is a GSI Lexan Utility Box. I also do random dunk tests where I leave it in a bucket filled with water over night.

The switches I used were actually from the marine section of a store. The rubber boots for the switches were part of them. A switch getting wet on a fresh water river trip really wouldn't matter that much anyway.

The way I look at it is the trailer harness itself is not completely waterproof and considering how many people back their trailers into a lake with the lights on in order to spend at least ten minutes loading on a motor boat is way more time I would have the pump on while paddling the river on a bad day.

I do remember reading on the package that the efficiency of the pump was also based on how high the water was to be pumped up relative to the pump itself. This is referred to as head.

Here are the specs for the pump I used:

Attwood V-Series V1250 Bilge Pump

The picture is for a V750 but it looks exactly the same.



4731 ltrs / 1250g.p.h. open flow
Open flow beats the competition by nearly 1135ltrs / 300 g.p.h
Only draws 2.6 amps - 40% fewer than competition for longer pump and battery life
Compact at only 4.9" in height
Caulked wires prevens wicking and motor damage
Low power consumption, has base bracket allowing dual position mounting (either horizontal or vertical)

Flow rate per number of vertical feet (head) to pump up:

0.0 feet - 1250 GPH
3.3 feet - 950 GPH
6.7 feet - 500 GPH

The max head rating is 11 feet.

Colin,

Nice work on the system. Mine are similar - portable twin pumps.
I love the idea of drilling holes in the top part of the pump housing. Nice and simple! I've glued small strips of driing patches to the sides of mine to run cord through for the same reason - get rid of the base.

I've been using no fuses for over three years no issues.

I alsol have been using custom ordered waterproof switches. Double O-ring on the toggle (internal and external) epoxy sealed rear end. No need for boots. Single switch for dual pumps - no problems - yet. I did break a switch but it was an impact/mechanical break not electrical. Good to have a spare at the house!

Interesting note on the pricing of those switches. $30 seems pretty high. When I ordered mine, I only ordered 6 and got them for $13.xx US each. I suggest checking for other suppliers as I cannot imagine such inflation in just a few years.


My most recent system, I skipped the case to save more weight. Mounted battery into saddle cutout, a piece of in inch thick minicell over the top with a strap to secure it. Mount switch up front, on thwart or under gunwale. A little fresh water seems to have no appreciable draw of current. I use SLA batteries as well, I would not skip fuses or box with a Lion battery though. In the interest of saving more weight, I've been experimenting with smaller lighter SLA's. Most recent is a 1.3 AH SLA weighs a bit over one pound. Only a couple of trips so far and did not run out of juice. Need a good play day to see how long it will run. I figure it should drive 2 1250's for about 10 minutes.

You can look at my pump system at that adress: http://picasaweb.google.ca/Mrmarc11/Pom ... 2884220706

The pump is a rule 20A it is very efficient (about 2amp)

I use 10 AA Nimh batteries (2600Mah) in series. The advantage of that type of batteries is that it as a very low weight and it can fit in a 1010 Pelican case, you can recharge then a thousand time without loosing efficiency and you can use them in others apparels in the house. The cost is 1$ per batterie on E-Bay.

The 10 battery smart charger cost 18$ on E-Bay.

The switch is a stainless steel marine switch (Evinrude). It is not sealed and do not have to be sealed.

Everything fits in my saddle. The only problem I have is that there is always a half inch of water left in the bottom of my boat. To solve that problem, one of my friend putted the pump on the side of the saddle, that way, he can tilt the boat to get the rest of the water left.

I took the pump off my saddle to put it in my new Boat.

The system is all detailed at that adress but it is in french. http://192.77.51.34/~cleduc/Canot/Diver ... ulombe.pdf

I checked out your step by step instructions for installing dual Attwood V1250s bilge pumps. Great job with the write up and all of the photos.

You stated that you need to keep the bilge hoses as short as possible because the 5/8" diameter hose holds a lot of water (that washes back into the boat when the unit is turned off). I agree they need to be shorter than longer. The Attwood V1250 actually has 1.125" inside diameter hose (more the reason to keep them short). Just thought you might want to revise the bilge hose size.

The Attwood rating of 1250 gph (gallon per hour) is under ideal condition. The best you can hope to get in field conditions is around 800-900 gph which is still very good. And that's having a short hose and about 12" of vertical elevation at the discharge.

The battery debate - SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) batteries are the most durable but are heavy. I use SLA battery in my setups, they are reliable and long lasting. You'll need a 5 Ahr rated SLA for dual pumps.

Waterproofing the battery and switches is not necessary if you use the system on fresh water streams, rivers, and lakes. You are adding a lot expense having a dry box, marine goop, and marine switches. Keep it simple is my motto.

Check out this site for other Q&As on electric bilge pumps for whitewater canoes:

http://jtkcanoes.weebly.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the great do-it-yourself article, job well done.

Waterproofing the battery and switches is not necessary if you use the system on fresh water streams, rivers, and lakes. You are adding a lot expense having a dry box, marine goop, and marine switches. Keep it simple is my motto.

Gee whiz. All of my failures have been with the switch and none of my boats ever touched salt water. Most of the time they've failed to make contact and one of them shorted out where I had to disconnect the battery. I've used stainless steel switches as well as brass switches. A couple of these failures were in the Grand Canyon so I had to run most of the river without a pump.

The only thing that works for me is to make darn sure the switch stays dry. Now I use any garden variety toggle switch, as long as it has a high enough amperage rating, and I waterproof it with liquid electrical tape. I think that neoprene cement might also work.

Colin's idea of using a separate switch for each pump is a great idea.

Jim

I use an automatic float switch which can be purchased at walmart kmart boat shop etc. for about 8.00 bucks Look Ma no hands HehEhE Mounted just behind one of the foot pegs

Jim,

Get a switch designed from the drawing board to be waterproof. About $15 - and no more worries. My first one lasted three years and broke only due to mechanical failure - I accidentally smashed the toggle.

I you use the AA batteries in the pelican box (this is how I want to make mine) - How do you get the power wires through the box? Do you just drill a hole through the box and silicone? Or is there some sort of watertight fitting to attach to the box?

Kevin

I just drilled a small hole filled with silicone. I did not have any problem.

If you want to make a guaranteed waterproof exit for the wires from your otter/pelican box, get a brass 1/4'' inside diameter nipple from the plumbing dept of your local hardware store. Drill a hole in the box and tap the threaded nipple in using some 3M urethane marine sealant. Then pull your wires through the nipple and fill it up with the marine sealant. This gives you about a 1/2'' of seal area inside of the nipple vs about an 1/8'' for the original wall thickness of the box. I get absolutely NO water in my battery box ( otter box ). I use the same waterproof switch that Jim P uses and have had no problems.

A good source for batteries and waterproof connectors and such can be found on this page.

The Cable Gland works great for passing wires through a waterproof box. The also have reasonably priced waterproof switches and connectors.

I found this site while shopping for a NiMH battery pack for the pump system I was building for my boat. I got a 3500mAH pack that is essentially a generic laptop replacement/spare. It fits very well into a small Otterbox. I think the battery and charger were only about $40.

I've used this system on week-long WW trips and still had a charge at the end of the trail.

The first switch I used was a run-of-the-mill toggle with a waterproof cap over the lever. That worked perfectly until my cat decided it looked like a fun thing to chew on. I didn't discover the numerous small punctures in the rubber cap until after a very wet day on the river. The pump stopped working midway through the run. Back home, it took a while to figure out the source of the water in the battery box as you could not see the holes in the cap until the rubber was stretched out a bit.

I strongly suggest using a fuse with any pump system. Without one that day the battery probably would have exploded or caught fire - or both. As it was, the fuse holder housing got hot enough to deform due to melting before the fuse blew.

I'm surprised this thread hasn't turned into another discussion on the ethics of pump vs no-pump.

Really great how-to document Colin. Nice job! Thanks.


Dave