C-Forum

without injury? Gragtman's feat on Desoto Falls last week got me thinking about this question.

http://www.boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1433987

I know the big falls on Elk River was named "Compression Falls" after what happened to Steve Frazier's back there on the first decent. But what is the highest waterfall run successfully in an OC1, and who was the paddler?

this weekend. Finally, rain for dry earth in the SE

Im glad he's ok, but dont think about it to long is my advice. What does it prove?

Wade did it for fun, not to prove something. You would have to ask Chris why he did it. Myself- 10 feet is my limit and 8 or less is better.

As far as I know the largest waterfall ever run in an open canoe is Big Falls aka "Compression Fall" on the Elk in NC. It is around 55'.

Steve Frazier got the first descent in a big old school canoe and compressed his back.

Shaggy (a raft guide from the Nolichucky) went there years later (around 2002?) and cleaned the falls in his superfly. So Frazier ran it first and got hurt and Shaggy cleaned it but to my knowledge this is the tallest waterfall ever run in an open canoe.

Jim Little ran the 33' waterfall at the bottom of the Elk in the late 90's and he also compressed his back.

Eli ran a drop in the 30-35' range in West Virginia and cleaned it but he might have been in a c-1

The tallest waterfall I have run is the 25' waterfall on Oh-Be-Joyful Creek in CO. I have run a few others in the 20'+ range. Lamance Falls on Crooked Fork in TN and Luminosa on El Salto in Mexico.

If I ever find a clean one I would like to run a 35' falls. However, I don't think I ever want to go as big as Frazier or Shaggy. 55' is too tall for me. I don't think I would have any control at that height.

Hey guys....a little while ago I was chewing the fat with Funkidredz...alias James Weir...on the subject of cutting and shutting Spanish Flys and just how strong they would be after the deed was done.......
He assured me they are plenty strong enough.....and respect to him, I was blown away by the evidence.....!!
Witness James in a shortened Spanish Fly.....

http://www.canoekayak.co.uk/gallery/picture.asp?id=572

Dooleyoc-1 wrote:As far as I know the largest waterfall ever run in an open canoe is Big Falls aka "Compression Fall" on the Elk in NC. It is around 55'.

Steve Frazier got the first descent in a big old school canoe and compressed his back.

Shaggy (a raft guide from the Nolichucky) went there years later (around 2002?) and cleaned the falls in his superfly. So Frazier ran it first and got hurt and Shaggy cleaned it but to my knowledge this is the tallest waterfall ever run in an open canoe.

Jim Little ran the 33' waterfall at the bottom of the Elk in the late 90's and he also compressed his back.

Eli ran a drop in the 30-35' range in West Virginia and cleaned it but he might have been in a c-1

The tallest waterfall I have run is the 25' waterfall on Oh-Be-Joyful Creek in CO. I have run a few others in the 20'+ range. Lamance Falls on Crooked Fork in TN and Luminosa on El Salto in Mexico.

If I ever find a clean one I would like to run a 35' falls. However, I don't think I ever want to go as big as Frazier or Shaggy. 55' is too tall for me. I don't think I would have any control at that height.

Sounds right to me Dooley.

The tallest vertical drop I ran incorrectly was 18ft Wonder Falls on the Big Sandy in WV... not a big deal unless you boof... which I did... too far... not cool. Someone should've mentioned that to me. Tenzin Botsford and I also ran it in a shredder... which turned into Tenzin, the shredder and myself running the last 6ft of it not together... kinda funny. Ask David and MJ about it some time.

The other thing about waterfalls that should be duely noted is that dead vertical drops and anything that has a grade to are completely different animals. Almost to the point where when people talk about records and even in guidebooks dead vertical falls often bring a new meaning to the phrase "must run".

This is a must run 25-30ft'er we ran last spring that had never been run in an OC and we caught it at low-med water levels... it's not vertical and there is a pinball move about 2/3rds of the way down. http://www.gowaterfalling.com/waterfall ... iver.shtml Myself, Pete and Roy all ran the same entry line and all three of us hit the "bumper" differently. The falls is in a canyon and at med-high water you have no choice but to run it. At the level we caught it at you "could" have carried around it with climbing gear, ropes, and a healthy appetite for adventure.

Teal Fyksen was able to run 20ft. Manabezo Falls http://michelesworld.net/dmm2/waterfal/gomanabe.htm nearly dead vertical last year (one I've always wanted but conditions were never ideal although I had run every other part of the section out to the lake) and made a clean drop and landing. That same afternoon a good friend of ours broke his leg/ankle/knee in like five places when he penciled in on the "normal" line... that's one good thing about c-boats... you aren't likely to break your legs... maybe face plant a thwart or take a paddle shaft to the teeth... or compress. I will admit though that on a sheer vertical drops I think a kayaker has more control.

Here's the video of Teal notching my drop... the bastahrd!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2254991282

Hope you enjoyed a little of our local flavor... and like Roy and I keep telling you Dooley... come on up some Spring!!!

Here's a handy little online waterfall guide to Northern Wisconsin and Upper Michigan... http://michelesworld.net/dmm2/waterfal/uppermic.htm

The tallest I've run is Hog's back in Ottawa's Rideau river(25' level depending, C-boat calendar, small picture in March). I'd go up a few feet(30') but that's it for me too.

This one is clean, vertical and very easy actually, approach is swift at best, where we land is where the water is coming out of an under cut, so recirculating at the base is nearly impossible, bomb proof roll is better since a small canyon with keeper hole is to be avoided downstream in Class III water(again level depending).

Landing in aerated water makes the impact so smooth I'm always amazed at how soft the impact is

We have a seal launch on the Rouge river close to home where you start + or - 30' high, slide on a 45 degree rock ramp for the 1st 20' and then straight down for the last 10'. Landing on green water here changes EVERYTHING ! Boofing here can hurt. But we have a huge edge over yakers when this happens , our legs and knees do absorb a big part of the impact leaving our backs the same lenght it was before

I beleive 30' is limit for back compression hazards in an OC.

Anything over this should be done by paddlers without kids

Open Gate wrote:The tallest I've run is Hog's back in Ottawa's Rideau river(25' level depending, C-boat calendar, small picture in March). I'd go up a few feet(30') but that's it for me too.

This one is clean, vertical and very easy actually, approach is swift at best, where we land is where the water is coming out of an under cut, so recirculating at the base is nearly impossible, bomb proof roll is better since a small canyon with keeper hole is to be avoided downstream in Class III water(again level depending).

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the falls that Paul Masons does for photo shoots? He said it's the most fun easy and aerated drop he's have done. Not sure where to find some good pics of this exactly... maybe you can post a few to show folks a "fun" waterfall.

I appreciate your comments, especially Dooley and Craig. Given that Shaggy cleaned the same line as Frazier in a Fly versus and Encore, do you think it is inherently safer to run a giant waterfall in a small boat versus a large one? The same surfacing characteristics that can make a big boat land well on a smaller waterfall like Baby Falls could make for a very hard landing on a giant drop, I would think. By the same token, I wonder if kayaks are inherently safer for giant drops? Like one poster above, I always figured the kneeling position and foam saddle would add a lot of shock absorption that the kayaker does not have, but Craig is probably right that the extra blade give some small bit of control in free fall. I am not thinking about doing anything like this. The tallest drop I have run is probably Potters Falls on the Crooked Fork, about 15 feet I would guess. It was too low, I got stuck on the lip and it did not go well!

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/conte ... hotoid_178_

what exactly Did happen there BB?

looks like you were about to endo, or did you plunge and resurface?

I've always liked that photo incidentally

Funny photo - that's one way to measure the height of drop!!

I know Jan could probaly suggest some around the PNW, but there doesn't seem to be many around here, at least not anything without continuous class IV approaches and exits.

PY.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but don't put most guys who run really big drops in yaks usually put some ballast, i.e. one or 2 waterfilled milk Jugs into the bow of their boats to keep the boats attitude in freefall adjusted, i.e. nose down.
And when they are in their tuck with the paddle parallel to the body, it doesn't seem to me as if the second blade is much help in this situation.
Not that I am in a hurry to try anything aboue about 25 ft myself though.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

boatbuster wrote:I appreciate your comments, especially Dooley and Craig. Given that Shaggy cleaned the same line as Frazier in a Fly versus and Encore, do you think it is inherently safer to run a giant waterfall in a small boat versus a large one? The same surfacing characteristics that can make a big boat land well on a smaller waterfall like Baby Falls could make for a very hard landing on a giant drop, I would think. By the same token, I wonder if kayaks are inherently safer for giant drops? Like one poster above, I always figured the kneeling position and foam saddle would add a lot of shock absorption that the kayaker does not have, but Craig is probably right that the extra blade give some small bit of control in free fall. I am not thinking about doing anything like this. The tallest drop I have run is probably Potters Falls on the Crooked Fork, about 15 feet I would guess. It was too low, I got stuck on the lip and it did not go well!

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/conte ... hotoid_178_

First off I have no idea if the flow and pool where the same levels on that Elk drop... maybe someone else can weigh in on that. If the pool was deeper or more aerated I'm certain that it helped... it would also depend if they took off and landed in similar spots. I'm going to speculate though and guess that the Superfly entered and surfaced more fluidly though... who knows for certain?

One thing I can say is that a longer boat will bridge a drop easier than a short boat... in other words the entry angle is more likely to be at an angle in a long boat on "most" drops. Conversely due to a longer waterline you could also launch a long boat further out from the lip landing on a big boof. I think you also are less likely to over rotate a long boat past vertical... although anything is possible I guess. A long boat would most likely be harder to correct in mid-air.

A short boat (I paddle the SpanishFly or Taureau) has one inherant trait that I prefer... it resurfaces quickly and cleanly due to it's short length and rocker profile. Several years ago David Simpson and Eli ran me down the Green. My buddy Roy who's also an excellent OC'er had a healing collarbone and hiked in to the Narrows to watch us and see it for the first time as well. The one thing that he noticed was the kayaks would pencil in more often than us and never resurfaced as quickly as we did on the bigger drops. Last fall another friend Bill along with Roy, Teal and myself were paddling on the "Falls" river in the U.P. Michigan and on one drop Bill who was paddling his Ocoee couldn't get his boat launched out far enough on a boof stroke to clear the stern and tagged it on the way down... none of us with short OC's had that problem.

As far as creeking goes I prefer a short boat (Sub 10ft.) with generous rocker so I can get in and out of those micro eddies when I need to. Also like I stated above... it's a hey'll of a lot easier to clear a drop cleanly in a shorter boat and you rarely need the speed of a long boat on a steep creek... heck... I'm usually trying to figure out how to slow the hey'll down.

Lastly... there aren't any rotomolded canoes over 10ft. that I know of... cuz' you won't find me paddling royalex down this gnarly shale and slate kind've run. A few years ago one of our pal's brought a brand new Phantom out to the Falls river... after punching in the nose like King Kong had hit it and tearing a hole in the bow we took a good look at the bottom of the hull in the parking lot... the slate bedrock made that Royalex look like a blindfolded hemophiliac had ran naked through a razor blade factory... j-u-n-k-e-d in one run... toast. A M/R OutrageX was also given the same fate that day.

we have a race every year over the Ohiopyle Falls (15") and there are way too few OC'ers entered....in fact ,that's why I've won the OC division the last 3 years in a row!

Come on down!


http://adventurephoto.exposuremanager.c ... 31#photo_s