C-Forum

Hi All,

I have been paddling my Det for a year now and when I get upside down I pop right out (no matter how tight I make the straps). I was wondering if anyone else has had this issue or if they can recommend a way to make a lap belt (I know I know, don't get upside down).

Thanks,
Ryan

I use airplane seatbelts.

They are aluminum so they are light and don't rust. They are easy to exit.

I drill two holes in the gate and attach a practice golf ball using a small piece of rope. This makes the gate release much easier to find.

There are a few ways to get them:

1) Seatbelt extensions
Obese people may buy seatbelt extenders to carry on an airplane. This is what you see stewardesses use when they go through the safety procedures (you know, the ones they keep in the pocket behind the last seat in 1st class or in the overhead bin on the plane's left in the front of the coach section). I have found them on ebay before. You will likely need to add a length of strap to it when fitting it to your boat.

2) Skybelts
Skybelts is a company that sells airplane seat belts as fashion accessories (expensive).

3) Airplane seatbelts
Airplane seatbelts are attached to the seat using a clip similar in style to a carabeener. On rare occasion, the gate may be held closed by a small cotter pin. They are easily removed from the seat. Perhaps you have a spare airplane lying around or some other legal means of acquiring an airplane seatbelt. I would never suggest that you sit in a seat other than your own when waiting to exit the airplane on the last leg of your return flight and stealthily remove one from a commercial aircraft.


Some people use automobile seatbelts that are similar to aircraft seatbelts (i.e. old VW beatle seatbelts). These are made of steel so they rust and are heavy. I would recommend that you avoid the pushbutton style seatbelts as they may jam and also may not release under pressure.

I just contacted Mohawk about there lap belt last week. They want $100 for their double strap and the mounting hardware. I have a Nitro and thought that something like that might work better for me. I like to loosen my outfitting between drops but lately I've been trying to get a reliable roll and I really have to clamp down the esquif outfitting to stay in; with 4 adjustment points it gets agravating. Not $100 aggravating though.

I'm way out on this but good toe blocks in the right position make more of a difference to me when it comes to staying in my boat upside down. When I got my new boat a couple of weeks ago I didn't install toe blocks at all and couldn't stay in my boat upside down no matter what I did (had the double strap thigh retainer). I Installed toe blocks and no problem; locked in tight. I learned a new way to do ankle blocks where my feet don't go numb anymore as well.
Chris

SYOTR soon!
Wendy

I think you're movin' to seatbelts a little soon. There are a couple OC-1 paddlers that use 'em, but mostly for freestyle. You don't need 'em to stay in a big open boat. Even Scriver who i've seen get seven ends while getting worked in haute tension (upper gat.) doesn't use a belt in oc-1.. and never comes out. There are lots of tricks to tweak your outfitting.
I like a tight boat that you can get out of hands free.
If you still need details check out our book or bug me and I'll offer hints. you can contact me direct off the link on bubblestreet.ca
paul

pmp wrote:I think you're movin' to seatbelts a little soon. There are a couple OC-1 paddlers that use 'em, but mostly for freestyle. You don't need 'em to stay in a big open boat. Even Scriver who i've seen get seven ends while getting worked in haute tension (upper gat.) doesn't use a belt in oc-1.. and never comes out. There are lots of tricks to tweak your outfitting.
I like a tight boat that you can get out of hands free.
If you still need details check out our book or bug me and I'll offer hints. you can contact me direct off the link on bubblestreet.ca
paul

DITTO!!!


Think of a kneeling in a canoe as a 3 point stance... knees and thighs locked into position... feet firmly pushed into footpegs... and lastly your hinder securely planted to the seat. As long as you are meeting all three of these requirements there is NO need for a lap belt in my opinion whatsoever. I use a lap belt ONLY in my C1 playboat and the only reason I do is there is no room for adjustable footpegs. Coming from the "three point stance" background I already learned in OC's I kept lifting my rear end off the saddle when I would roll and most times ended up pulling the skirt off the boat. Lap belts are nothing to be taken lightly. Try a search on this site using "lap belt" as the keyword and you will find a bunch of posts to read. For the record... I'd never suggest river running with a lap belt either.

Unless your roll is B-O-M-B-E-R without a lap belt... I would never recommend anyone having one in their boat... E-V-E-R.

Personally I think bulkhead style saddles are the best for staying "in" your boat by the way... may be worth looking into. Check out... http://kayakoutfitting.com/tips/wwcanoe/index.html

thanks craig, thought I was the only one seeing something wrong with his plan.

kneeler wrote:I use airplane seatbelts.

They are aluminum so they are light and don't rust. They are easy to exit.

I drill two holes in the gate and attach a practice golf ball using a small piece of rope. This makes the gate release much easier to find.

There are a few ways to get them:

1) Seatbelt extensions
Obese people may buy seatbelt extenders to carry on an airplane. This is what you see stewardesses use when they go through the safety procedures (you know, the ones they keep in the pocket behind the last seat in 1st class or in the overhead bin on the plane's left in the front of the coach section). I have found them on ebay before. You will likely need to add a length of strap to it when fitting it to your boat.

2) Skybelts
Skybelts is a company that sells airplane seat belts as fashion accessories (expensive).

3) Airplane seatbelts
Airplane seatbelts are attached to the seat using a clip similar in style to a carabeener. On rare occasion, the gate may be held closed by a small cotter pin. They are easily removed from the seat. Perhaps you have a spare airplane lying around or some other legal means of acquiring an airplane seatbelt. I would never suggest that you sit in a seat other than your own when waiting to exit the airplane on the last leg of your return flight and stealthily remove one from a commercial aircraft.


Some people use automobile seatbelts that are similar to aircraft seatbelts (i.e. old VW beatle seatbelts). These are made of steel so they rust and are heavy. I would recommend that you avoid the pushbutton style seatbelts as they may jam and also may not release under pressure.

Ummm... that's sounds kinda like a federal offense there dood?

There are cost effective and more "logical" options for less than $30 like this... http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/ll60.html Old VW's used the lift release latch style belt for many years... this is the only type of lap belt to even consider... what ever you do... do NOT use a push button style automotive lap belt.

check out... http://www.google.com/products?q=lift+r ... 7GGLG&um=1

pmp wrote:thanks craig, thought I was the only one seeing something wrong with his plan.

Yeah man... it scares the crap out of me just thinking about it... I just can't say how dangerous and for the most part unnecessary they are 99.999% of the time enough. When mine is on in the C1... everyone I'm paddling with knows about it... "just in case"

Ryan... can you shoot a few pics of your outfitting and post it on here so we can get a closer look? Also... are your feet laying flat or are they upright in the toe blocks?

I also use a lap-belt -- in the pool, training my roll -- I just slip out my bulkhead seat after a few rolls. And certainly in the beginning it's nice to just have to focus on the movement and not on staying in your boat. Though I rolled my boat in the pool without lap-belt as well.
And yes, we use plane-style lap belts. And yes, I'm kind of afraid using the lap-belt on the river, even though I still fail my roll on the river.

But a right fit in a bulkhead seat really does the trick. I tried a salsa in the pool, and with swimming trousers I just fit in -paddling outfit I don't get in- and that rolls just great.

Btw, bulkheads are great, but not easy to get out of if you ever get trapped. We designed a bulkhead with quick-release! http://www.canoeadventure.be/index.php? ... &Itemid=99

bulkheads also greatly reduce the amount of water in your boat, also an important advantage!

btw, how do you guys fasten your footpegs? I had the foam ehm, getting wider where the connection bar goes from one footpeg-bar to the other in the foam block behind the seat. I worked them too hard and they started to get loose.

bulkheads also greatly reduce the amount of water in your boat, also an important advantage! ....hmmmm
Sorry guys.....
Having been really looking forwards to a Detonator and having cheked out the outfitting etc I was appalled when mine turned with a bulkhead and no straps.... not just a bulkhead but one thats designed to let as much water as possible, a leftover from somthing else by the looks of it..... it does not fit this boat!!
A very, very poor substitute from the strap system that came in my Zoom....
Also one size does not fit all, the boat coming with everything glued in place does not help.....It is now sat in the Garage whilst I decided weather to try and make something of the bulkhead or just dump it and make one of my own.....Its just plain no good as it is...

Wetnobby, what should a seat be like, according to your opinion? I don't really get what you want.

This is my Zoom, The straps were fitted when it arrived. All i did to them was fit a couple of quick releases attached to each other so a single pull and i fall out.
All the pictures of detonators (and those I have seen) have these straps. The block I installed in front of the seat is the housing for my Attwood 1250 bilge pump and battery pack, it also serves to support the front bulkhead which in this instance is not to much more than an air bag restraint.
Just a shame the Detonator did not come like that.....
I am not saying a seat should look like this just that the outfitting is poor expensive and non functional at the moment..!

Sorry forgot the picture...