C-Forum

I need an opinion from the Spanish Fly (type) boaters. My first whitewater boat was a Probe 14 with Yakima foot braces. Although I experienced the occasional mid-rapid calf cramp, and resulting loss of concentration (read as - I flipped), the Yakimas worked okay. About five years ago I had the ACL replaced in my left knee and the Yakimas were nearly intolerable. No problem, since I sold the Probe and got an MR Outrage with Northwater foot cups. With the Outrage I could lay my feet flat and not experience any problems. Although I still have the Outrage, I mostly use my Finkenmeister without any foot braces - feet layed flat. The extra VW style thigh straps that I added are usually sufficient to hold me in when it comes time to flip and roll. Well, I went and picked up a Spanish Fly and set to completely re-installing the outfitting, Yakimas and all. Bottomline, I can't stand having my feet in a verical position on Yakima foot braces. However, I can't see how I can keep myself in the boat when I flip if I am not using the foot braces. Do any of you folks have a suggestion? Any off-the-wall suggestions are welcome, as I really want to have an open boat for warm water play time. I've got the tools to make just about anything, so don't be bashful.

Marc

I lay my feet flat and slide them under the yakima braces in my Quake...Anchors me well. I use the northwater cups in my OC's (adjustable and stationary types) with good results also...

Have you tried taking your feet off of the pegs and stretching out occaisionally while you're paddling?

I have my Quake set up with Yakima footbraces, ankle blocks, and a Mohawk single thigh strap.

One thing I like about the Mohawk strap is that you can very easily loosen it and tighten it up.

I often loosen it, take my feet off the pegs, and stretch out in the flatwater sections, then tighten the strap up again when I need it.

I can't paddle with my feet vertical either... In C-1, feet flat with no pegs, at most a notch carved out in the back of the pedestal for my toes. In OC-1, feet flat with the balls of my feet on the pegs. I have both :
* run my foot pegs 1/2" - 1" higher
* cut off the bottom 1/2"-3/4" of the peg

Yeah, put in some ankle blocks to give you some support and better circulation, then either raise the pegs or trim some off the bottom so that your toes are under the peg and the ball of your foot is doing the work.

Everyone, thanks for the input.

I thought that I would follow-up with the results. I left the pegs in the fly and keeping my feet flat and under the pegs. Seems to work well. Tried rolling the boat in flat water - no problem. Getting thrashed in a hole - that maybe a different story.

For those who are interested, I have followed Sir Adam's advice and widened the standard pedestal in the fly to 9 inches (standard is 6 inches) and my Finkenmeister to 13 inches. Comfort level is much increased. I would increase the width of the fly pedestal even more, but there just isn't enough room on the sides of the boat. The side wall foam and foot pegs don't allow enough clearance to drop you feet back; I had to cut a wedge out of the sidewall foam in order to use the 9 inch wide pedestal. Also, the wider pedestal naturally forces your knees out to a more stable position.

Lastly, in my original post I had asked if there were alternatives to gluing the pedestal down. I tried two-sided indoor/outdoor carpet tape. Good for finding the right location for the pedestal, but not for anchoring the pedestal. I doubt that velcro would be a worthwhile alternative. So, out comes the Weldwood.

Scott B., I know you are looking at getting a fly, and thought that I would give you my opinion. I really like the fly - stable, rolls well and seems to get on small waves that cause problems for my fink. Also seems to hold a line really well. Not the fastest boat, but it is only 9 feet. So, if you are looking for an open boat for play and creek/river running I think that it is a good one. Of course you may already know this, but I thougt that I would give you my uninformed opionion. You should realize that I have only tried the boat on easy class II and flat water.

Marc

Yeah the industrial strength velcro worked for me initially in the ezg. But as the season has gone on and water levels go down, I haven't used it as much, so it sat for a month until I got it out the other day. All of the velcro had come out/unstuck to the floor and center support thingy and my ped. just fell out. WELDWOOD!

just an idea...

have you tired making front/vertical part of your Yakima's a different shape... instead of plumb vertical, maybe something angled past vertical might help (leaning forward) ...made glass/kevlar footbraces of this nature a couple times for race boats, and they were comfortable... i have a knee with no cartilage (removed in 70's) and a repaired ACL as well, and like the ability to move foot braces throughout the day, and as difficulty demands...

I also find having the ability to push back with my toes, to tighten the fit as need, is also easier on my knee(s)... as the toe/foot blocks don't have to remain as tight

+1 for Phil. I also had knee surg. ACL &
I wouldn't use an open boat without them.
I use the pegs to steer. Push off of them singularly to apply subtle knee pressure,ect.
Also, Try Gator Grip an all plastic form of velcro. It will work and can be glued to boat and saddle,ect. (as it's adhesive won't last too long with constant water exposure)

Just a thought based on sdbrassfield's quake outfitting. I'm not sure if this is stock type outfitting or something somebody came up with, but the rear anchor for his yakima is not glued down. The foam is a cylinder (think roll of TP) that sits at the back of the mohawk style saddle. It can "roll up" slightly under pressure, but is at the same time very good at holding you in.

I've not spent a lot of time in the boat, but it's a pretty comfortable setup. I hate footpegs, so the fact that I actually like that setup is saying a lot.

Is there a picture of SDBRassfield's Quake set up? Inquiring minds...

Some picks of a Quake I set up (kind of wish it were still around...) :


http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam ... 4589307938

http://picasaweb.google.com/scott.broam ... 8884275250

The back end of the Yakimas was secured to a piece of vinyl downspout (the white bit) - rigid, but not 100%.

<i>I left the pegs in the fly and keeping my feet flat and under the pegs. </i>

I went over on the Yough with my feet under the toe pegs and caught my toe. I came out of the water with my big toe broken & pointing straight up in the air. Then I had to paddle through the next few rapids to get to a trail out.

Charlie

Phil,
There are some foam blocks that are made in a highly elongated U-shape for fitting under the hulls of either canoes or kayaks for displays...that I cut in half...and shave a little...make for nice 7"+ long ankle blocks..plus a surface for your shin(s). Maybe it's just me but the longer a soft support is in contact with my shins, there is that much less pressure on my knees...and staying solidly in..against the foot pegs, when rolling, isn't as much effort either...

$.01
SteveD