young slalom racer needs advice - paddle length

[insolence]

Hi there


Can anyone help me with the question what paddle length to use? I'm 1,65m, that might be 5 ft 6 inches (??)
I have no idea what is best or how to figure out an apropriate paddle length...
I have always used paddles I had been given. And when I tried a significantly shorter one than mine, it felt more comfy, especially on the offside. But I didn't have enough propulsion anymore.

thanks for help

[craig]

I'm not a racer and I'm sure there are lots of different ways to figure it out, so heres what I suggest; with you in your boat in your normal seating/kneeling position, the paddle blade should be fully in the water and the grip should come up to your forehead. Add or subtract a few cms for comfort. Figuring it out this way will allow for differences in boats, outfitting and body types. The blade type will also make a big difference in propulsion and comfort. I like a wooden shaft for warmth and flex with a curved blade for a good bite in the water. Other people prefer carbon; straght blades; plastics etc.

[Bob P]

When I was in peak form racing A/B, I used a 57" paddle for my 5'7" frame. I'm more-or-less normally-proportioned, using a 5.5" seat height. Now that I'm more mature , I'm down to 56.5" paddle with a slightly narrower (Galasport) blade.

[edg]

Everyone has there own preferences, body type, and technique, but you might find the charts at pp 3-4 of this link interesting. It's Bill Endicott's (long time US coach) study of racer statistics, including height and paddle length. Martikan seems to be closest at 5'7", and uses a 55" paddle. At 5' 8", I've dropped from a 58" to a 56" and like it, but I'm old and a hack...edg

http://www.canoeicf.com/site/canoeint/i ... 0Intro.pdf

[icyone]

Don't forget to consider blade size as well. You are within a relatively "average" size for slalom, so perhaps this is not an issue, but if different paddles "feel" more or less comfortable, take a look at the blade size as well as the total length, & also whether your stroke rate changes. For everyone the correct paddle is very individual: total length, shaft length, blade area & shape, etc., and this may change as you develop strength and skill and find your optimum stroke rate & rhythm. Experimenting as you go along is a good idea.

Being relatively small I always used to order custom paddles. Early on I ordered a "XX length" paddle from a builder (who shall be nameless). What I got was a large blade on a ridiculously short shaft! After I eventually found the paddle that I loved, I always sent a blade tracing as well as the length!

Good luck...

[insolence]

thanks so far ....will measure my paddle, maybe it's within the range - it's just that I have no real feeling wether a paddles length is right. Paddles are way too expensive for buying them to try......so I tried some of my club, but the only short ones available to me have blades I don't like
Tough I'm weak (considering muscular strength), I never felt comfy with narrow blades when trying them. It felt better with wide ones, also when doing whitewater or freestyle, such as the Double Dutch I'm using at the time......

the hint with Martikan for paddle length was helpful, it will be a good orientation point!!!!!!
That's just what I wanted, thank you

[jakke]

Hi Insolence,

are you paddling slalom C1 or OC1? That makes a big difference!

Not that I'm an expert, but when you're paddling a lot from the stern, I think you need a longer paddle.
A lot depends on the paddling style you use. In open boats do you use "BCU-style" if I can call it that way: classic tripping allowing your shaft hand to go lower then the gunnel, or are you using (now some people might want to kill me) ACA-whitewater style, keeping your shaft hand above the gunnel at (almost) all times.
In a C1, this difference will be smaller.
Are you reaching far forward or not, ... ?

For me, I needed a long paddle to get a good bite for stern corrections, but above a certain length, this was annoying to go paddling cross bow. I ended up with a paddle length of 1.57m and I'm 1.83 tall. but that is fitted to my paddling style AND my boat.

You might consider ordering a paddle that has not yet been composed, or choose one that is over-dimensioned. If it's too long, cut of a couple of cm, mount a new grip and try again. Yuo might spill a couple of grips, but a grip is cheaper then a whole paddle
my guess: OC: between 1.50 and 1.55, C1, between 1.40 and 1.45m, but that's just guessing.

btw, paddles don't have to be expensive if it's for testing the length. you can buy cheap (30-40€) paddles of different lengths and try them. When you know what feels right you can do an investment for a good slalom paddle. That's how I did it with my whitewater paddle. 1.55 was still a bit short, 1.60 too long, so I went for 1.57 which is perfect

[insolence]

oh, sorry, for an US Forum I should have been more concrete........
I'm paddling usual olympic slalom C1...... (in Europe, where I come from, they don't have OC1 Slalom....)

hm, paddling style - I don't have one. In Slalom I don't have a coach looking after me and teaching me such things. I'm struggling alone with gates, canoe, paddle and my nonexistent technique most of the time, so I have little idea about such things.

Anything I know (and try to do), is, that you should reach far forward, end the stroke at the hips or shortly after that position. The whole thing is done by torso and shoulder rotation, so you don't lean much forward........



well, I'll have some experiments around 140 cm, and maybe cut off my existing paddle - or set a new one on my wishlist for birthday

[jakke]

I'm from europe as well (I should be on your European armada list ). And I think it's a shame we don't do OC slalom! I would be interested in OC slalom, but I don't feel like buying a C1 at this moment (I'm looking forward to try out a prelude!).

But anyhow, for "advanced" paddling technique, you should definetly get yourself the dvd's from kent ford. I think they have some really valuable hints, and they are not that expensive after all, shipment to europe is also very interesting.

You paddle OC1 as well, if I'm not mistaken? do you have a technique there? You probably do have, but don't realise it. Watch those instruction dvd's, and have someone video you. That's really worth a lot in learning! You could also try teaching. That way you learn to look for errors, or points for improvement, and you'll do the same when you see yourself paddling on tape.

I really don't know a lot about slalom - not to say nothing - but C1 is mainly bow paddling. Almost no stern corrections, hades of a cross-forward stroke. Maybe C1 paddlers use a pitch stroke, but I never "investigated" that. But I think you have some really good whitewater coaches in germany (I thought that's where you live, or live near to). They will be able to help you out as well. No idea about slalom coaches hower. In belgium I know: none.

Happy paddling!

[insolence]

@ jakke: ooops, you're right, you ARE on my armada list!!!! Sorry for that

You're also right about OC1 slalom - would be interesting, and then we'd have good boats more easily available. Well, I'm paddling OC1 occasionally - once a year at the armada, since the only ones really fitting me cost around 2000 Eur ( and hey, I'm a student, I think that says all about my financial possibilities !!! Especially since university, unlike times gone by, nowadays is a fulltime job ) - and I wouldn't know where to store it.


I learned paddling mostly by doing, sometimes with some hints given by friends. Since two years there is a freestyle coach, from whom I benefit a lot. But he won't take me where I want to get. He can teach me to handle stoppers, waves and such stuff. But not the fine, perfect paddling technique controlling the boat on the slalom parcours or in whitewater - which actually should come and is in my eyes necessary even before becoming a technically perfect freestyler.


I'll have a look on the videos you mentioned.

So, we do have good (slalom) coaches at my own club - it's just that, as far as I've gained the impression, no one wants me nor takes me serious - for I'm way too old (started slalom at the age of 18 ) to become a top athlete, and for women's C1 doesn't have a good reputation in Germany. It's only now that they make it an official (olympic ?) discipline.
There were people being positive on me facing the challenge of a single bladed paddle. But even more would have loved to throw me out.
You know what they said to me when ladies' C1 hadn't been official discipline at slalom competitions yet?


"You're my nightmare" was one judges' comment, at one of my very first competitions.

[edg]

This link may give you a connection to someone with a bit of c-1w experience and advice. Hope it helps...edg

http://haileythompsonwhitewater.blogspot.com/

[the great gonzo]

Insolence,

Nothing against the Kent Ford video's, they are great, but I think if you want to learn and practice the current style slalom paddling, then the BCU Coaching DVD called Canoe Slalom Technique Library is maybe a bit more up to date and what you are looking for.
I couldn;t find it any more on their new website, but I am sure they can help you if you contact them, I am sure they will be able to help you: http://www.bcushop.org.uk/page/aboutus/

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

[Al Greve]

At 18...... don't give up as C1W is in its VERY begining stages right now!
I have two daughters training C1W in Ottawa under the National program, my youngest is 12 and my oldest is 14, she'll qualify as a junior under ICF rules for next spring.

From what I'm hearing there still is some backwards thinking in some parts of Europe towards CW1, but the sport will evolve if they like it or not. That said..... we've got a great National Head Coach here in Canada ( 2000 olympic silver medalist in C2 ) who is very excited about moving the ladies along in the C1 program.

Move to Canada!

[jakke]

@ insolence: no offence taken, don't worry.

Being a student says a lot about your financial possibilities, but don't worry. Once you work, you buy a boat, and a year later you want to buy a second and ... (I'm in that case ).

What level of whitewater are you comfortable at?

Whatever style of whitewater you want to paddle, flatwater is the basics forms the basics of it. I found a schedule for flatwater slalom training on the net, 3 exercises. I extended the setup and added a whole lot of exercises, but I have not digitized it so far. (Nor finished the complete training at a decent level ).

Maybe you should not try to focus on slalom in the first place? I know they usually tell it the other way, but anyhow. I whitewater rapid can be paddled like a slalom course. That's what they say. Now I think you can learn the basics of slalom by learning to paddle whitewater rapids. Eddy hopping, surfing, ... . You won't become a good slalom racer if you are a good rapid paddler, but I think it will definetly help. And yes, I think you do have very good whitewater instructors in Germany, with trainings at a reasonable rate (might be expensive for a student though).

Don't shoot me if I'm underestimating your skills now! But I think it's good to take some basic OC training, moving/Whitewater training. Some of these guys work with video analysis. They will get your good habits confirmed, and get the bad ones out of your style. You'll also learn to critique your own paddling style on video, so you can grow yourself without coach (probably won't make it to the olympics without coach). I learned a lot critisicing myself on video.

Can't you join a paddling club where you can store your boat in their boat house? Or don't they do such a things in Germany?

Hint: some canoe schools in germany are selling instruction boats for reasonable prices from time to time. I don't know the state of the boats, but it might be worth to inform.

I'm awaiting the instruction dates from some german coaches as well, since I'm willing to take some of their classes myself! I hope this info is usefull for you!

Oh, now I think of it, I thought in Austria or switserland there was a canoe school working on OC slalom for a weekend. Don't know the url anymore though. But it might be interesting to search on that as well.

[insolence]

Hi there I am again.........@ al Greve: Canada sounds good - maybe I can convince my boyfriend to move there!
Unfortunately, my start was three years ago, so I'm 21 now ......but I'll have a try! Probably I don't get into (inter)national competitions, but maybe this way I can become at least a good CBoater.........actually that's anything I want

Slalom seems to be the best way to learn paddling well, since nothing is less forgiving than a slalom C1, and nothing requests more perfection from its paddler, having to hit a line so precisely that 1 cm already counts..........


I was so lucky to meet a experienced CBoater at a race I did today.......he gave me some hints that training schedules and instruction books and videos can be purchased from the German canoe federation......they'll be easily available for me, I'll get my hands on these........since they are said to be perfect for self instruction......


wow, for just asking how to find the right paddle length, this was a pretty lot of advice and help!!!!

thank you a lot - and sorry I'm taking these things so seriously. I just can't help it, paddling is not only my sport, it's also one of my biggest dreams