C-Forum

Hi!

I have a friend who want to start ww canoeing in OC-1
We can choose only Esquif or Mad River canoes.
What you suggest?

Male or Female, how large, how tall, how atheletic, how mentally durable, any paddling experience, how masochistic, how strong.

Many good boats out there, but I need more info.

From Mad River, the obvious choices are the Outrage or Outrage X, depending on weight. The Outrages are decent handling, mainstream choices that are unlikely to disappoint.

Esquif offers such a wide variety of boats, and while you might well find something you liked better than the MR Outrage, you might also end up with something you don't like much at all.

I like the Esquif Zephyr, but can't recommend it unless the purchaser lives near a factory repair representative. I also like the Esquif Paradigm, which is very different from the Zephyr. But some don't like the Paradigm much at all. I would love to have an Esquif Spark, but I'm way too heavy for it. It's really not a boat for a big person. The Esquif Vertige looks more "ordinary" than the MR Outrage. Others may come with their opinions.

So, you can see, there is a rich variety of choices in design from Esquif, and possibly one of them would be the BEST choice, but it may be safer for you to go with the MR Outrage or Outrage X.

come on ezwater - why would you treat someone, someone you've never met that way... you might handicap, hamper, or completely turn off - that new guy to open boating (forever )... he might just say Ffit and get a kayak... such an outrage to even consider a outrage - for a just starting, up-n-upcoming, aspiring hopefull... Mr. beereddy was looking for a honest helpful reply for a freind... Friends don't do that to Friends

now w/that said...

i'd suggest trying to borrow a couple, several, as many different oc1's as possible... so that you can see what might work best for him... how he reacts, his balance, his flexibility, how a round bottom feels (hee-hee) or a flat one, or if he even likes a open canoe at all... and if at all possible, buying a used boat for the first one... chances are it'll be a very short time before he's ready for something else, once he's developed some knowledge

an outrage .....

borrow, rent first, then buy ... .

it's also important to know what type of paddling your friend prefers: playboating or trekkings.
For trekkings and some playboating: vertige. But a vertige is too long for alpine style rivers -my humble opinion-.

if you want a forgiving boat but more of a playboat: have a look at the raven. I haven't tried it, but it kind of looks good!

paradigm might be a bit too extreme for a beginner. Zephir is tippy, and I don't really like the material -looks too fragile-.

So basically you have 2 options in my point of view:
- vertige for more trekking related stuff
- raven for more playboating, nitro or paradigm if it can be a little more extreme.

Oh, and I haven't even thought about the weight!

The first boat I bought after taking a workshop in solo whitewater paddling was an Outrage. I loved that boat, and thought it was great for a beginner. It really let me get used to solo paddling in a boat that could also allow me to progress. I've sinced moved on to an Ocoee and now a Zoom, neither of which I'd recommend for a beginner, but they're both great boats and a whole lot of fun! I've briefly tried a Paradigm, and I bet that would be a good boat to start with and grow into as skills increased. I thought it was pretty stable and dry. I second whoever says to try whatever you can first, then decide, but try them longer than just a couple minutes in a pond. You won't really know if they're right until you commit to a whole run in one and either find yourself having fun or thinking that the boat's just never going to be right.

Deb

Why is you're friend limiting to only Mad river and esquif?

Because it's a matter of what's readily imported.

As for the try-before-you-buy advice, it works better for OC-1s than it does for c-1s and kayaks, because the "tryer" is more likely to find OC-1s with tolerable outfitting. But I have always found that a person just getting into something is not going to be able to get a sound impression about a strange boat.

I still think a person can't go severely wrong with an Outrage. Maybe some can give their thoughts on Esquif's older series, the Nitro and Blast.

The Esquif Zephyr would sure be a hot option if it weren't for the issue of doing the odd repair......

Ok
My friend is very good paddler( 4 place in Jukon river Quest in double kayak), but he, s not feel good in ww kayak. So he need very stable boat . He likes my Zephyr , but I cant recomend it because of material .
So, us I understand its only two chance Raven or Outrage

Is there a reason for not considering a Spark or perhaps a Detonator?

never tried the last one,

but a Spark is a really efficient boat... I'd highly recommend this one for the non-playing - river running paddler, for someone that's not ready for a Prelude or S.Fly...

which makes me ask - has he even sat in a Prelude, to see if it's stable enough?

Yes he, and some of my friends try Prelude and flip immediately
I try Detonator. Its very close to Prelude. Tipy.