why doesn't someone build a plastic river runner C1?

angelamsig · Post by **angelamsig** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:20 pm

re C1 market below...I missed that whole thread but it seems to be
mostly about playboating.

I've always been told "there is no market for a C1". But I wonder if that
has changed? I mostly like the Atom but other boat choices would have
been nice (faster, lighter, not such a diver on big drops).

I have personally bought and sold an Atom 3 different times. I love
it but it's frustrating because I have paddled faster higher volume
glass boats so I know what it's missing.

SO WILL SOMEONE PLEASE DO THIS BEFORE I GET TOO OLD TO PADDLE?

Angie

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:30 pm

They do! The Robson Finkenmeister.

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marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:47 pm

Yeah, the Finkenmeister looks awesome! I only wish I could find a used one at a reasonable price near my place (quebec)

But, still, I am wondering why compagnies like Esquif are making models like the taureau with an open cockpit? Spanish fly, skeeter, quake, cu fly, aftershock all have this type of cockpit. Can't standt it and, really if someone could only tell me the good side of it I would be curious. When running even not-so-big water with a boat like this, the waves are breaking on your bow and filling up your funnel-shaped cockpit in seconds. Good for rodeo maybe but for creeks...

And I know some people are afraid of being stuck in their boat for safety reasons but just don't put the skirt on if you don't feel like it!

If you try to convert a kayak you just won't find any with more than 26 inches wide: tippy for a C1. I know quite well: I drive a prelude, 26 and tippy, and a converted C1 squirt: 26 and tippy.

The finkinmeister looks great with a lot of volume, rocker, skirt and 28 wide (i even read 29 somewhere...) apparently both stable and carvy enough.

How could it hurt anyhow to have the feature of the skirtable cockpit? Guess there must be something I don't get. Looks too obvious for that finky to be the only one out there...

The tippy feature of all C1, being converted kayaks, is so annoying that I am sure this keeps a lot of people away from C1s.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:44 pm

Yeah, the tippy feature of conversions can be a problem. However, it isn't necessarily the width of the hull, but rather the hull design that makes for stability. My old Dagger Zealot, discounting the wings, is 26" at the widest point, and narrows fast in both directions, yet it is very stable.

We have to remember that the flat bottoms on plastic kayaks are there mainly for planing. It is the design of the sides that makes for stability. I have an old Phoenix c-1 with elliptical cross section, but it has very good stability, better than my Hahn had.

angelamsig · Post by **angelamsig** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:54 pm

Oh, oh, oh!

I did not know about the Finkenmeister! I remember hearing the name but I had no idea it was a real C1!!!! I think I just found my new boat!

Thanks!!!!!!!!
Angie

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:19 pm

marclamenace wrote:Yeah, the Finkenmeister looks awesome! I only wish I could find a used one at a reasonable price near my place (quebec)

But, still, I am wondering why compagnies like Esquif are making models like the taureau with an open cockpit? Spanish fly, skeeter, quake, cu fly, aftershock all have this type of cockpit. Can't standt it and, really if someone could only tell me the good side of it I would be curious. When running even not-so-big water with a boat like this, the waves are breaking on your bow and filling up your funnel-shaped cockpit in seconds. Good for rodeo maybe but for creeks...

And I know some people are afraid of being stuck in their boat for safety reasons but just don't put the skirt on if you don't feel like it!

If you try to convert a kayak you just won't find any with more than 26 inches wide: tippy for a C1. I know quite well: I drive a prelude, 26 and tippy, and a converted C1 squirt: 26 and tippy.

The finkinmeister looks great with a lot of volume, rocker, skirt and 28 wide (i even read 29 somewhere...) apparently both stable and carvy enough.

How could it hurt anyhow to have the feature of the skirtable cockpit? Guess there must be something I don't get. Looks too obvious for that finky to be the only one out there...

The tippy feature of all C1, being converted kayaks, is so annoying that I am sure this keeps a lot of people away from C1s.

Esquif make open canoes, because thats what they've always made. but the Salsa, and some versions of Taureau can accept a skirt.

Personally I don't find converted kayaks all that tippy.

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:29 pm

Some conversions are quite stable - my Score and UltraClean for example.

angelamsig · Post by **angelamsig** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:00 pm

Hey!

This is not only about tippy vs stable!

Speed! Glide! Controlled resurfacing!

All in plastic so I don't have to patch!

The article by Tim Marks referenced above pretty much
describes what I'm looking for.

I wonder how many people on this board have never
paddled a 'real' C1...

Angie

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:22 pm

hmmm.. interesting. Guess I need to try more convertions to find one that drives stable enough for me.

I knew about the salsa but am not looking for a squirtboat at the moment, rather a creek. But if they can make some taureau that accept skirts that would be nice too. Went again on their web site and found nothing about it. Guess I have to ask the retailers.

Thanks for the replies!

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:22 pm

angelamsig wrote:paddled a 'real' C1...

Discounting a handful of sessions in a slalom boat, coaching. I haven't.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:39 pm

I love my Sith

http://www.shaggydesigns.com/ 20lbs. The most comfortable boat I've ever been in. Seems to be pretty tough too. I've tagged the stern a couple of times while spinning on a wave w/ no visible damage. Pretty amazing when you know that it doesn't even have end-pours. I do stay away from shallow runs though, as the carbon/Kevlar hull has abraided in a couple of spots.

For shallow runs I still have my Big EZ. http://cboats.net/c_db/list.php?type=5& ... e=Big%20EZ It's 25.5" wide which at first gave me extra roll practice, but stability is a state of mind

After paddling my master cut Acrobat, I've learned to either pull a good, hard forward stroke or just stuff an end under when I think I'm going to flip

It is the S L O W E S T thing I've ever paddled

But it sure is fun on a steep wave

If I were buying another river runner I'd get a Fink. I tried PAC's at this year's Armada & thought it would be a good all-around boat. I think the stern could stand a good sqaushing though

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:47 pm

marclamenace wrote:...But, still, I am wondering why compagnies like Esquif are making models like the taureau with an open cockpit? Spanish fly, skeeter, quake, cu fly, aftershock all have this type of cockpit. Can't standt it and, really if someone could only tell me the good side of it I would be curious. When running even not-so-big water with a boat like this, the waves are breaking on your bow and filling up your funnel-shaped cockpit in seconds. Good for rodeo maybe but for creeks....

... me thinks the C1'er (not-u-Angie) truly fails to appreciate the finer aspects of taking something that just about anybody can do (such as paddle a decked boat), and doing it equally as well in a more demanding manner

you get water in your boat... well hotdamn boy - that's what it's all about, if you ain't getting water in the boat you need to step (or steep) up and paddle something tougher... don't you have no shame or self respect SIR, posting that you get wet so easily (hee-hee... just poking fun)

BTW: they are shaped that way to keep water out, from running up and into the hull... PS, they creek wonderfully.

wetnobby · Post by **wetnobby** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:09 pm

Loads of really good C1 river runners already on the market

Just that you have to make your own outfitting

Never have we been so spoilt for choice with such high performance hulls freely available in so many different styles and sizes..its a great world we live in...

Therein lies the rub though, personal choice,even though Robson make the fink not many people choose to buy just because its a C1. Most of us actually want something different. the Remix, Jeve, Burn etc all make superb whitewater river runners...and we get the sense of satisfaction that comes from converting and paddling them...

I believe thats the way it will stay....
At least until it becomes illegal to sell a paddle with a blade on each end...now theres a thought

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:14 pm

You guys are funny. And yes you got me uncovered here: I am not that experienced and am getting wet easily. Sorry for being such a dummy!

Still, I can ensure you that I get dryer rides in my prelude then any of these weird-shaped half-opened cockpit boats. I appreciate my prelude a lot even with its tippy side and am looking at another one just for the closed deck feeling I get in my short converted squirt boat. The fink definitely looks great, maybe I'll convert a Jefe or other if I can't find a fink around.

I may just be too chicken to appreciate the noodle-in-the-soup feeling... Only dry boat for me please!

Chicken noodle soup hummm... Supper time guys, gotta go!

Marc.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:33 pm

marclamenace wrote:Still, I can ensure you that I get dryer rides in my prelude then any of these weird-shaped half-opened cockpit boats.

We're gonna have to get you in a Taureau, Spanish Fly and CU fly, then we'll see what gets you wet

(Only the CU fly will be wetter than the prelude)