C-Forum

Information about the 2009 ACA Whitewater Open Canoe Nationals, which will be held on the Dead River in Maine from July 1 - 5, is up on the web!!

http://www.canoe-newengland.org/WWOCD-N ... cdmain.htm

Looks like fun!! Good luck to all!

Tom Blue
Race Chair, 2008 ACA Whitewater Open Canoe Nationals

Posted on calendar as well! Enjoy!

Anyone who's interested in keeping the 14% (race boat) class needs to show up for the meeting at the '09 Nats. There's a movement from the top of the ACA to eliminate race boats. It was tabled at the '08 meeting w/ plans to bring it back up next year.

What are they going to do? Allow compositions to compete against rubber

Nope. They say composite boats cost too much, break too easily & "nobody" races them anymore so they want to elliminate the class. Pretty sad that they want to elliminate race boats from a national level race I'll acknowlege that generally the most competition is in the 16% class, but I'm not going to buy another boat so I can race downriver. If those city folk down in Raleigh actually build a course & have regular races I'll buy a slalom boat. I hopped in Philcanoe's boat this summer & REALLY liked it. I see that as being WAY more fun than downriver.

Good lord. You're telling me that they are going to outlaw race books from the Downriver Nationals?

Something's wrong with this picture . . .

that's what happens when you try to accommodate all the wannabes and beginners...

*** first they want to be able to just compete, you know try it out... see what it's like...
help expand the numbers, fresh blood... all under the guise of creating interest

*** and next they want to be considered equals, but they don't have a boat....why because
they're too dang cheap to buy a race boat (or make one)... some of the guys in REC (slalom have
been at it for 10 years, and still haven't stepped up) and before you know, well there's enough
of them that they make and change rules to fit their values, sometimes even during a competition
(seen it, it can happen) once you can get enough of them together

*** so then since there's no apparent different in F16 to F14 or from REC to RAC, the real race
classes suffer from stagnation and attrition... and why because the folks in those F16 and REC
classes start to believe they 'Are Too National Champions'...


thats' the same thing happening in Whitewater Open Canoe Slalom.... what's needed is to simply call it what it is, a citizen race... then if they want to race at the real National Level go get a boat... just like everyone else does in decked boats

if I've stepped on some toes... too bad, I'm NOT sorry - go buy a real Race Boat and help the sport progress... I'm about ready to try a C1, where at least there is some value of just placing well, and a real sense off some tradition left... way I see it is - if you ain't beat Kaz in a race boat, doesn't matter what's you call that thing around your neck (how many "Double Dipped Rec Ferry Lipped Plastic classes can and should there be, more than one?)

Seems like the discussion(s) around the outside bar room table are still going on!

As a Rec boat racer (oc2 with kid) I'd be seriously pissed seeing the real racers ruled out.

Reasons:

1. The "true" race heads and their sweet race boats would wind up in my class and I'm already trying really hard not to be stuck at the bottom of the "rank"ing!

2. I like to see the hot boats/boaters nail the hard lines. ...and it helps me be a better racer!!! I learn from them and I think my son does too!

3. One of these days I will get a real race boat, actually train and maybe then turn a good time.

If you eliminate the race class just put everyone in the same class (long and sprint) and C what shakes out! It will NOT be pretty for the non-race boat crowd!

My $.01 ! Paul C.

PS: We show up only for the fun! Knowing that we'll be toast in the actual races... not sure how much fun it would be otherwise!

PSS: Mike will you still burn that race boat of yours in protest if the rules do chang? I was not planning to attend 2009s but I might actually show up to watch that!

Phil, you nailed it man.

I'm not opposed to having F16 or REC classes. Just don't kill the real race boats.

PAC wrote:If you eliminate the race class just put everyone in the same class (long and sprint) and C what shakes out! It will NOT be pretty for the non-race boat crowd!

Are you saying "run what ya brung"? That was frowned upon when I suggested it as an alternative when this came up this past summer.

PAC wrote:PSS: Mike will you still burn that race boat of yours in protest if the rules do chang? I was not planning to attend 2009s but I might actually show up to watch that!

I'm not going to Maine in '09. If they do eliminate the class I will show up the next time Nats are run on the Yough or closer to me & burn that baby Because, as I was told by the big-wigs, F14 boats have no use other than racing

If there isn't a "race" specific division there should at least be a 'freestyle" (no design rules) division where folks in race boats can continue innovating.

I personally agree with Phil.

That said, look at WildWater racing in this country. You need a specific type of boat to compete. And how many appeared at the Nationals on the Salmon a few years ago? Five! Including me, a COMPLETE hack at WildWater at the time (and not much better now ).

So, new classes CAN be good for the sport. But NOT at the expense of the classes that drive innovation in the sport, or have quite a history to them. Just look at how many old "race" designs are now considered "rec cruisers"?

In my humble opinion, there should be a race class, several rec spec classes, and an open class.

would you give out a national championship for each class?

I'm planning on going to the race in Maine and I will be racing an F-14 race boat.

philcanoe wrote:would you give out a national championship for each class?

hmmmm Good question. I'm no wordsmith, but maybe something along the lines of "recreational champ AT nationals" & give plastic "medals" Reserve the title of "national champion" for those who paddle race boats.

Dooley, glad to see you stepping it up for '09 Have fun & show 'em how it's done.

Just like the local slalom events - yes, there is a first, second, third in each class, but the "fastest time of the day" wins the big prize...the championship. If a fellow paddling in the F16 class is faster than everyone in the F14 class, they deserve it! And likewise if someone innovates a new design that may not fall in any class (hence my "open" class), THEY definitely deserve it.

Just my two cents...

philcanoe wrote:would you give out a national championship for each class?

Considering there is a national championship title, and world championship title, in each class of slalom racing (and wildwater), I'd have to say, "yes" (based on that information). Having more classes has always been about inclusion in the sport. It escapes me how someone could propose to eliminate a class, just 'cause it different. I thought that was what we boaters were all about--being different!

Mike W., I like your proposal for awards. And if there is going to be a boat burning, I'd love to witness it too!

philcanoe wrote:*** and next they want to be considered equals, but they don't have a boat....why because
they're too dang cheap to buy a race boat (or make one)... some of the guys in REC (slalom have
been at it for 10 years, and still haven't stepped up) and before you know, well there's enough
of them that they make and change rules to fit their values, sometimes even during a competition
(seen it, it can happen) once you can get enough of them together

Back when we were racing cars on a dirt track there was a "Bomber" class. It was created for folks who wanted to get into racing on limited budgets. There were severe limits on what you could do to the cars. Stuff like running a particular tire (no matter the track conditions), no jack-plates, no tube headers, cast iron intakes, 2bbl carbs etc. The cool thing was that if you won the track championship for the season you could never race that class again. You either stepped up to hobby-stock, late-model, or didn't race. That type of rule would sure upset a bunch of the downriver crowd But, like Phil said

philcanoe wrote:before you know, well there's enough
of them that they make and change rules to fit their values