C-Forum

I am going to take up the offer of a video critic on my roll. This is my third pool session. The first was a complete disaster. The second was better, but I still couldn't roll.
One thing I noticed after the second session was that I was experiencing water damming. The boat has a front bulkhead, and there was one 2" port and two 3/4" ports. I added two more 2" ports for the third session. I think this has helped.
Attached is my best attempt. I get up but just barely.
For some, I understand that this isn't a true roll as I go over and come up on my onside and my paddle is already in the set up position, but I haven't yet advanced to that phase yet.
I seem to get up half way OK, but that last half is real hard. I think what I am doing is not following through with the hips/knees, but am open to suggestions.

Mike


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8qdFVZLP4w

You're up What's wrong w/ that? Keep working on it till you don't have to think about it. What you're doing works & that's all that really matters. The only thing I see that I'd try differently is to get your shoulders perpendicular to the boat (when my back pops I know I'm in position to start my roll) so you're squared up & looking at the bottom of the river. If you have to cheat & scull a little at the end that's ok.

You're keeping your head down & moving it across the boat to get the weight shift. That's good.

Once you get this phase you can start flipping off-side & work on that.

I watched it three times just cuz I like the commentary.
Looks good to me, just keep at it and it'll get easier.
As far as that not being a roll...bull. You went from upside down to upside up without swimming. It don't matter what side you fall over on, that is a roll.

Already duplicate comments:

1) Love the commentary! It's like a song.

2) My critique for the start of the roll would be rotating your shoulders square to the bottom and arching up more to the surface. Having more torque in your torso at the start should give you a little more oomph for your hip snap and finish.

3) Looks pretty good for 3 pool sessions!

PY.

I am so glad there is no video of my 3rd pool session. Or, for that matter, the 1st-20th.

Looks to me like you might need more "oomph" but not from the paddle - really concentrate on snatching up that right knee.

try moving your torso out a little farther forward and further outwards once

try getting your right hand out a bit further on the shaft (where your shaft hand would normally be while paddling) and extend your right arm out a touch (think 90 degree angle or so at the elbow)

little more hip snap

looks good though... keep at it!

Tuck your grip hand into your belly. It's too far away from your body. Keep the elbow of the shaft arm bend and your head in the crook as long as possible. This will eliminate the tendency for your elbows to fly and expose an arm to dislocate potential.
You're making it.
Bill

First of all the videographer and commentator was my lovely and always supportive wife.

Thanks. Lots of good comments to work on. I thought I was rotating my shoulders square and arching up enough, but obviously not. It seems logical that doing so would give more momentum with the hip/knee snap which should follow though more as well. I shall also try work on my paddle grip/position.

Craig, when you say "try moving your torso out a little farther forward and further outwards" do you mean try to reach further out when 90 degrees to the boat as well as up to the surface?

I'm not Craig nor do I play him on the internets, but... Reaching out is good as long and you remain *protected* - what does that mean? You are protecting your face and shoulders. What has always worked for me is to have my forehead and the back of my hand on the paddle shaft connected. * When I am set up and about to roll, I am stretched to the surface as close to 90 degrees to the boat and close to the surface as possible with my forehead on the back of my knuckles on the shaft. That puts a paddle shaft between my face and any river bed rocks intending me harm. My T-grip hand is in the neighborhood of my appendix (I'm a righty) with that thumb pointing away from me. In this position, from right knee cap to right elbow is a wound up spring. When I start the roll (when in good form), it's my knees that start things going - snatch that right knee up and start driving that left knee away - my forehead is driving down on the paddle shaft. Keeping your forehead behind and *on* paddle shaft protects that right shoulder - don't push up and off of the paddle. [I think of driving the roll with my head.] As things start to move (boat is rotating) you should start to sweep forward - keep those legs in the mix pulling the boat under you. Inevitably your torso will be sinking a little - to combat this, I do cheat a little by twisting the paddle so it is climbing as it moves forward by pointing my T-grip thumb more towards my nose - that helps it plane up. As you are coming up, throw your head and paddle forward and across (keeping it low - in the water). Your forehead might come a little disconnected from the paddle, the paddle might migrate to the top of your helmet at this point but keep your nose down - throw your hands forward and wipe your nose first on your onside gunwale, then across your bags, then over the offside gunwale. Don't stop now - get that T-grip up and that paddle forward and going in a strong forward stroke.

It should take a lot less time to perform than to type and ideally should be your "next" stroke.

How do you make it fast? Make it strong. How do you make it strong? Do it *lots*. Make it automatic.


* The summer I nailed the roll I had an almost constant sore on the back of my right hand from my helmet.

virob wrote:Craig, when you say "try moving your torso out a little farther forward and further outwards" do you mean try to reach further out when 90 degrees to the boat as well as up to the surface?

Once you transition from your "on" side to flipping over from your offside you will want to do your transition underwater far more quickly and nearly tucked to the deck or airbags in an OC because in a river flipping situation you probably won't want to be hanging out upside down while trying to line up your torso/head/etc. (You will probably find that your bodies rolling angle will change when your offside entry becomes faster and more natural as flipping from your onside almost always gaurantees a 90 degree angle.) As this happens you'll find that your paddle isn't going to start out at 90 degrees to the boat... and instead will be further forward once the movement happens more quickly. When you see experienced playboaters rolling they often end up doing what looks somewhat like a forward or skulling stroke as they are coming up... most often because they are starting their roll closer to 45 degrees... and not 90. It is a little sketchy thinking about exposing yourself to rocks or ??? like this... but I prefer to flip and transition to a rolling position rather than hanging out upside down... and at the least I'll be on my inside for when the moment of calm comes.

Hope this makes sense... I've been painting for the past 4 hours... and may have inhaled too many fumes.

edit... sometimes while playing if you know the hole is deep enough and you won't hit anything if I find that I'm about to "offside" and I know there's nothing I can do about it I'll actually throw myself to the offside to assist in getting back up more quickly. mileage may vary.

Craig & sbroam,

Really good comments and suggestions on the practical aspects of rolling on the river. Got to say that practicing in the pool I kept thinking how exposed I felt and wondered how well this would work in a real flip situation. I am going to kept all this in mind for my next pool session which might not be for another couple weeks as the pool times don't work well for me. Might just have to head for the lake instead....brrrrrr..
I will update in a month or two once I have made some more progress.

mike