Broken Nose Video from Saturday

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gumpy
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Post by gumpy »

wow, if that's what the ocoee is like remind me to stay the heck away! there were more boaters than water!
Joe
Louie

Post by Louie »

LENGHTY

You must not boat down south and for sure have never boated with the GDI. If we swim and you throw us a rope we will throw it back, if you peel out of an eddy with a look of deadly concern and come barein down on us we will ask you to go back and surf and leave us alone. We will not float on our back feet up pointed down stream waitin on some one to correct our mistake. Self resuce is an art that requires practice. We tend to boat alone a lot and pretty much know how to take care of ourself. If a raft customer see an open boat flip and he immideatly swims to the bank with his boat and paddle while his buddies continue to play in the hole they get a much better impression than if we start acting like a bunch of butt boat who send someone for the ambulance, shoots off three different color flares, call 911 on the Sat phone. and begins to set up a Z-Drag, everytime sometime swims. We call raft floatin undercut and like to use them for practice the raft guides know this and would never try and miss us cause they know we don't want them too. Also you made mention of people continuein to "add to the problem" to you it might be a problem to us it is havin fun. No offence but me think you read too amny of old Waldbridges safety report in the American Kayaker Mag. I have a feelin you are a member of that Kayak club.
This is the Ocoee, not the Narrows of the Green. In the late seventies all guide traines were required to swim the whole river. We got buggie boards out the butt. Raft guides go for high number of how many geek they can flip out of their boats. The most dematic rescue I ever saw on the Ocoee ( that I wasn't part of) was when a butt boater whipped out his knife and procedded to cut his buddie out of his dress and cut he artery in the guys leg and his buddy bleed out. Support group might be great for people goin through a divore but really not needed on the Ocoee. If you check with the young member of the lost tribe the one who had the most fun are the ones who swam the most. I guess you must boat the LY a lot but me think you don't know the Ocoee very well. Come boat with us and tell us that if you swim you want us to come and hold you hand till you get your sugar cookie back together but don't think we are automaticly goin to treat you like an involet, we will assume you are an adult who know how to take care of themselves. heck two weekend ago my 12 year old daughter stoped paddlin to wave at the camera and swum the lesser Wesser on the Nanty and even though i was standing there with a rope I didn't throw it, I told her to swim to the bank with her boat and paddle which she did. A NOC buttboater got all tore up and started screemin "throw her the rope, thow her the rope" as my daughter stood up in the eddy and flip her boat over to she said to him it is OK I don't need it. Please come boat with us and then pass judgement on how we do things down here. Oh ya you ain't goin to like the way we set shuttle, too easy for most northerns, no drama or clusterfforifations. We drive to the top and drop off boat drive to the bottom and park the trucks, stick out our thumbs, and drink a few beer with the local who give us a ride back to the top. Again please don't think your way of runnin the river is the only way, please have fun and laught at how we run the river and do rescues, we certinly laught at how you all do it.
Larry Horne
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Post by Larry Horne »

that ocoee vid is hilarious! what a frikin junk show. i sure love california rivers 8) i've never seen a crowd like that, and i'm sure it would not be fun.

the original vid is funny too. that rapid looked harmless so I too would be filming and laughing my butt off as long as it was mellow downstream.. seems like it's nothing to get worked up about.
If I was a raft customer in one of those rafts that went by and I was thinking, I like this whitewater thing and Id like to get more involved in it, which craft would I select? Would it be the kayak or the canoe?
as far as raft customers getting into canoeing...i think that's a long shot. they're looking for the easy way to get a thrill, so of course they would go toward kayaking if they ever thought about paddling their own craft... it's the easy way.
Larry
Alden
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Post by Alden »

Thanks so much for posting that video! Very, very entertaining. I almost lost it when that canoe pitoned the canoe that was in the hole and came to a dead stop.

Alden
Louie

Post by Louie »

Mr Homes I ain't sure I AGREE WITH YOU. AIN'T NUTHIN LIKE TAKIN A SAFETY BREAK WITH FIVE OR SIX OF YOU BUDDIES AND ALL OF A SUDDEN TWO OR THREE OF YOU BUDDIES come swimmin by. Not only do you get to laugh your butt off but you are pretty sure you don't have to share you safety supplies with them. When you boat once or twice every weekend of the year you get plenty of solo or two or three boat runs in, so when you can go with a group of fifty or so it is a ball.
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iRolled
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I was there.

Post by iRolled »

Great video. It brought back memories of my swims on Broken Nose. I once broke a paddle with my face there.
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Alden
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Post by Alden »

"AIN'T NUTHIN LIKE TAKIN A SAFETY BREAK WITH FIVE OR SIX OF YOU BUDDIES AND ALL OF A SUDDEN TWO OR THREE OF YOU BUDDIES come swimmin by."

Okay, I'm going to need some time to digest that one!

I'm clearly paddling with the wrong people! :D

See y'all at the Upper Yough this weekend,

Alden[/quote]
Longboatin
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Alls I know is Im rilly confusd

Post by Longboatin »

What blows my mind about this site is the diverse opinions posters have about what constitutes bad news on the water. More than a few threads ago, some boaters were maligning the Yough about lack of helmets and the guiding style of commercial trips in PA. But those same posters were silent on the Autobahn style carnage Ocoee vid. What gives?
Of course Louie and I agree on some issues - self-rescue is highly important -(although I dont think its an art form to be practiced, I save the practice 4 the art of actually boating) - in fact youd rarely find myself or Lengthy in possession of a rope on any run we do. Also, I can assure you Lengthy is no stranger to Charlie W., as he's usually on the recvng end of some glares and comments while drinking on the UY. And Louie, though you rag on Charlie W., the man is way more ancient and w/o doubt still busts cleaner lines than you, so you might want chill on your fellow AARP member.

2nd - its great to see beginners in there doing rivers, instead of just doing roll practice.

I watched the vid a couple times and the biggest minus for me was leavin all the excess hardware in the hole. Swimmin , dont have a problem w/ - makin people self rescue, good for them - but leavin the boats in there, i dont get. Its like ballin up yer vehicle on the highway then leaving it there for the next guy to run into. Hey do what you want, but its a bit irresponsible to suck the next guy into your mess.
Watchin both vids make you southies (OC or K1) look a bunch a lemmings, just mindless. I now understand why, when Ive been on Sec IV so many people could rattle off a laundry list of actual death spots on the run.
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PincheLocoGringo
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Post by PincheLocoGringo »

I happened to be on this trip. First time down the Ocoee in a canoe, 8th time on whitewater in a canoe. We did have guides (yes plural) and I took the sneak routes most of the way down. The Lost Tribe, being young and immortal, decided against most of the sneaks. I after having my first swim 6 feet from the put in that constituted most of Grumpy, decided dscretion was the better part of valor.
But, if you talk to the Tribe, they had a blast. As we retrived boats after the carnage at hades's Hole, they all talked about how much fun they had.
If common sense were the prevailing wage, I'd always be broke.
Louie

Post by Louie »

I'll have to take your work for good old Charlie's lines, I understand he does the Cheat a lot and I am sure he is on the Gauley. We never see him on any of our runs. I do think the Upper Yough is as hard as the Upper Tellico but we consider that an intermediate run. Please post some video's of the Safety Guru's trips. I kinda of encourage people to post my carnage videos, boatin as much as we do down here we have all the non carnage video we need, it the swims that are worthy. You continue to make judgements on my abilty by what you see on youtube, please come down and boat with us then you opion could be valued. I don't know about you but I would rather be thought of as someone who swims every rapid and then suprise the hades out of people when they boat with me than be thought of as someone who never swims, just to have a bad day and disapoint people.
About Helment I think it is like Mexican trafic laws more of a recomendation than a requirement. Life jackets I fell are a little more important, but again a personal choice. Doopey is always forgettin sumthing and he never has not done a run for lack of equipment. Cummie did a 1st D of Morgan Creek ( Look it up Gabe another BS 1st D) with us with out a life jacket.
I try and always cary a rope, but try and never use it. If a person is standing on a rock five feet above a 35 foot drop and they promised me a six pack if i threw them a rope ( and I thought they had the money to buy the beer) they also have to agree to repack the rope.
BTW what the hades is the AARP I guess that must be another northern Kayak club, do they let members in with 7 month old kids? I just got back from takin the 7 month old to Mexico for a week and I didn't take her on any rivers the water was too high, see I think safety is important.
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PincheLocoGringo
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Post by PincheLocoGringo »

I have to admit, I have seen Louie with a rope in hand ready to use it twice. Once at Alien Boof on the Ocoee and once at Nantahala Falls waiting on his 12 year old. But the rope is always with him.
As far as leaving boats in the hole, that is not the norm. Normally you hear "Get your boat, swim, stand up". I have actually heard this told to Louie's 8 year old during his first swim. Granted, there were people close and ready to help.
If common sense were the prevailing wage, I'd always be broke.
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Mr.DeadLegs
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Post by Mr.DeadLegs »

So what the heck is up with these PA Yankees? Are they trying to start the WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION again? All they do is get on here and be nasty. Are they mad that they only get to paddle a couple of months a year. Do they think they will come back down here with their carpetbagging ways again, this time trying to ruin our fun? What makes them so foul? There are a couple that seem to have fun on a river, what happened to the rest of them?
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways totally worn out, shouting "Holy large steaming pile of dog doo what a Ride" " Nolan Whitesell
2opnboat1
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lighten up

Post by 2opnboat1 »

I personallly think everybody needs to light'n the F up. The large majority of the swims were from the first crew... Need to give this guys props, least they like canoes and want to paddle them. One of the problems with the openboating world is to many people take it way to serious. Very few if any of us will ever be famous or make a living of boating. When I started boating everybody swam no onlookers bitched about it. I hate swiming but i understand it is a neccessaity every so often. Light'n up remember we are just rinding sleds down a hill we just ust water instead of snow.

Richard
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Berkshire Jack
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Post by Berkshire Jack »

I was lucky enough to be in Tenn on Saturday and invited myself and joined the group (and the lost tribe). There had to be 20 of us C Boaters clogging up the eddies at times on the river. I thank Louie and the rest for being so welcoming. Southern hospitality at its best.

By far, the video shows the worst of the mayhem. The rest of the day was far less chaotic. The swimming I saw was acceptable. The water was warm. Those new to the river were given directions on how to stay away from the very few dangerous spots. When a swimmer obviously needed help, someone would eventually paddle up and give it. The boy scouts were beaming thoughout. They were great gents and are welcome additions to the C boat community. They were all excited to get back to their fellow scouts and pass on their new knowledge and excitement.

I have to agree though, that red canoe floating unattended at the bottom of Broken Nose should have been cleared quicker.
My 2 cents

Jack
C1-er
Louie

Post by Louie »

Unexspected object in unexspected places tend to work to build good avoidance skills, beside you saw what it did to that buttboater, I bet the next time he see a boat hangin out in a hole he goes for an eddy, but I hope not.
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