C-Forum

I am looking at Millbrook for a new whitewater canoe. I am looking at the Rumba or the Defiant. How are these boats? How do they paddle and most of all how do they stand up to the waters of New England? I Paddle many rivers that at times have less than you would like of water so I am concerned about damage to the layup.

Any help or advice would be great.

For just price it is down to Millbrook, Bell Ocoee, Esquif Nitro or the Mohawk Viper 11. I talked to Clipper Boats about their Viper 11 but with shipping it is way North of my price point.

Thank you

Good question and interesting examples given...

Esquif nitro may have the toughest royales layout of the 4 boats probably, but the double pronouced chines can wear off pretty fast on rocky roads and this is not exactly easy to repair. Frustrating when the rest of the boat is still in very good shape. Big and slow boat to me, but you can throw gears in there and very stable.

Bell and mohawk all had poor constrution issues in the past (look at the sticky royalex thread on this forum), maybe solved maybe not. Ocoees and vipers are really fun to paddle though.

Millbrook are great boats, but not royalex: composite. Kaz would tell you more about the models I am sure but composite is lighter and flexes less so is really fun to paddle performs more, get cracked easier but get repaired also easily.

Ever considered a plastic boat like the prelude? Plastic is a must on low volume rocky rivers. (That was double-talk now wasn't it?)

Have fun,

Marc.

I answered your query already on paddling.net, but will add that most of the wear and tear on a composite boat from paddling shallow, rocky waters is surface wear. I should also admit that a Millbrook boat can be kind of noisy, compared to Royalex, as the Millbrook bonks over the shallows and ledges.

Because the wear does not show as much, people think that Royalex boats and polyethelene boats do not wear as much. Well, the vinyl surface of Royalex sure will wear off, and then you have to protect the ABS layer from UV. And if you could see those ABS layers, you would see that they do take cumulative damage from blows and distortion. As for polyethelene, everyone knows that poly kayaks wear and tear under the seats, and get wavy as gravy. And that kind of wear is almost impossible to patch or restore to normality.

So, the lightest boats are the lightest and most repairable, but the least durable. Royalex falls in between. Polyethelene boats are NOT light if they are comparable in length and volume, and while they are the most durable, they are the least repairable.

Pardon me, I answered your question on Boatertalk. Gotta get out and paddle more.

Bluehole wrote:... How do they paddle and most of all how do they stand up ...

I'd say the only way to answer something as silly as that, is with something equally as silly.

So I'll ask, how good are you and do you know how to you paddle? If the answer to any part is yes, then why did you have to ask in the first place.

BTW - MillBrook has been in the canoe business for over twenty years, how many other companies can say that? How do they paddle? What do you think, that they would all paddle like a piece of large steaming pile of dog doo? That choosing a boat is a personal taste thing, why do you think every company makes so many different designs (hint: to have one YOU will like) And I thought the smart folks were the ones in canoes, did you start in a Kayak?

ezwater wrote:I answered your query already on paddling.net

OMG is there still a paddling.net out there?

The Esquif Nitro paddles roughly like a T-34 tank. It's big, slow, and impossible to tip over. However, the chines can not only get slowly worn but sort of gouged... the sharp edges just don't last that long.

Kaz (Millbrook) actually lives in New Hampshire... I'd highly suggest you call him and he can discuss several layup options with you suited to fit your needs.

I think the Nitro gets a lot of bad rap, I put next to the Ocoee and Viper 12, but not as edgy more stable. More forgiving for beginners and is a little slower to throw around but is an awesome big water boat, and great for bigger guys

Bluehole wrote:I am looking at the Rumba or the Defiant. How are these boats?

I love my RUMBA.
Very stable all-round boat and easy to paddle,
though I miss the side surfin in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amLywxpIWn4

Also the Defiant is a nice boat which has similar character
to the Rumba, but a bit longer for small river in Japan.
The bluish color with white painting boat in the video is the Defiant.

Once you go glass you'll never go back....

I'm in the Adirondacks, and rarely boat plastic....

The nice thing about glass is you can build it to YOUR specs, not one-boat / layup for all paddlers.

Kaz does really nice work - and sponsors this site

how does glass hold on to dumping the boat on stony rough riversides ? If you lay a glass-boat on its side and its getting punctual force from stones ?

Thanks for the kind words about my boats. Fez, glass will scratch when you lay it on it's side on the rocks.
JKaz

Thank you all. I will be contact JKaz to purchase a Rumba.