C-Forum

Just curious to see when bulkheads came on to the scene.

The first bulkhead I ever saw was in a prelude. Well, it came with an un outfutted prelude I bought a GAF about 7 or 8 years ago.

Who started using a bulkhead?

Somebody who didn't want other paddlers to borrow their boat!


I think most of the reason that I can't find a smaller boat that I like is that any time I have a chance to try one, I don't actually fit into the outfitting - usually bulkheads for people with scrawny little thighs.

Pat.

I think it was just natural progression after the precition saddle Folks liked the idea but didn't like what was available

David Simpson... I think he may have done one of the first "all-foam" versions that other people eventually copied.

The Perception saddle may have been the "first"... but let's wait until the old-timers chime in on this'un

don't know who was first but Savage boats had them and Dagger didn't. I wish they had.

philcanoe wrote:Frankie did the 1st I remember seeing in a canoe, in the Savage boats.... Skeeters and Super Fly's. Not sure if this was something used in c1's, or just a result of him being unable to reliably adhere d-rings to HDPE.

I'm fairly certain David was using them in his Vipers "back in the day" first... and if memory serves he modeled them after the Perception saddle. Savage started using them in the roto-boats... so I'd say they were the first to use them in production models as standard outfitting. The saddle in Frankie's old Edge (the green one) that David has uses the longer Frankie style saddle... but with straps rather than thighhooks.

I sent David a link to this thread... he'll recall the specifics a little better than I

I'll never forget the night David and I re-outfitted my SuperFly right in his living room next to the wood stove with a big open can of Weldwood... but that's a story better saved for another time. David is the person that put me on the path to setting them up right the first time... without a doubt.

Craig Smerda wrote:David is the person that put me on the path to setting them up right the first time... without a doubt.

Craig, this is certainly an art rather hard to describe in a little web thread but if you would have any details on this I wouldn't certainly be the only one to appreciate...

I was myself thinking of some ways to mark a piece of cardboard when sitting my butt on a piece of saddle only, trying to use some pen on a spacer rod to mimic most exactly the shape of my thights at the correct height... It certainly is easier to remove foam by cutting and dragonskining then adding some after you cutted too much...

Lack of engineering capacities has finally lead me to that beluga saddle option I guess ... Any tricks on how to cut it right away to avoid fidgeting for hours would be nice.

Highjackingly yours,

Martyn Hedges was using one in 1980. That's the earliest I know of. They're definitely not a new thing by any means.

marclamenace wrote:

Craig Smerda wrote:David is the person that put me on the path to setting them up right the first time... without a doubt.

Craig, this is certainly an art rather hard to describe in a little web thread but if you would have any details on this I wouldn't certainly be the only one to appreciate...

I was myself thinking of some ways to mark a piece of cardboard when sitting my butt on a piece of saddle only, trying to use some pen on a spacer rod to mimic most exactly the shape of my thights at the correct height... It certainly is easier to remove foam by cutting and dragonskining then adding some after you cutted too much...

Lack of engineering capacities has finally lead me to that beluga saddle option I guess ... Any tricks on how to cut it right away to avoid fidgeting for hours would be nice.

Highjackingly yours,

this is an old article I did... but it still applies today I reckon
http://kayakoutfitting.com/tips/wwcanoe/index.html

I should probably do another update one of these days... in the meantime... give this a look as well...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... 2471#52471

Hi,

The first copy of the Boat Builder's Manual I owned was a late-70's edition and Walbridge described both C-1 and OC-1 bulkheads. He called them "bulkhead machines."

When I first met Bob Kauffman in 1980 he had a wildwater C-1 with Ethafoam machines. Bob learned boat building and outfitting from John Sweet. I had bulkhead machines in both a C-1 and OC-1 shortly after I met Bob.

My impression was that some people who really wanted aluminum machines but who didn't want to futz with the aluminum went with foam machines. Under my shed right now is an end-hole C-2 from ~1970 which has original glass machines.

The final word would probably have to come from Sweet or someone like that.

Roy

Craig Smerda wrote:

philcanoe wrote:Frankie did the 1st I remember seeing in a canoe, in the Savage boats.... Skeeters and Super Fly's. Not sure if this was something used in c1's, or just a result of him being unable to reliably adhere d-rings to HDPE.

I'm fairly certain David was using them in his Vipers "back in the day" first... and if memory serves he modeled them after the Perception saddle. Savage started using them in the roto-boats... so I'd say they were the first to use them in production models as standard outfitting. The saddle in Frankie's old Edge (the green one) that David has uses the longer Frankie style saddle... but with straps rather than thighhooks.

I sent David a link to this thread... he'll recall the specifics a little better than I

I'll never forget the night David and I re-outfitted my SuperFly right in his living room next to the wood stove with a big open can of Weldwood... but that's a story better saved for another time. David is the person that put me on the path to setting them up right the first time... without a doubt.

actually I deleted that before you posted...

After looking at Richards post, about the Perception saddle... I remembered having created one in a Hahns-Open, by moving a thwart back, paddling it out with foam, and wrapping it with duct tape... complete with requisite wood dowel foot pegs, it was pretty suicidal ... eventually it broke into at the bottom of a drop, after having rotted under the taped up foam. Happened at the bottom of Tallassee Falls, and was definitely not a good feeling to be thrown forward out of control (South Alabama classV - really a three, with major screwup points). This was after graduating from perception saddles in a Whitesell, a long time ago. And no, I am not claiming to have been the first.

I was thinking about production boats at first, and believe Frankie was the 1st to so, but only production wise so deleted.

who'ever did it first... THANK YOU!!!

All I can say is that I'd probably paddle a kayak before I'd go back to straps...

(Phil... I didn't notice you had pulled your post until now... the internets are like the bizzaro world some days)

Pretty interesting responses overall.

I agree, I think they are great. Been a big fan after I outfitted that prelude.

Never would have thought about perceptions saddles contributing to the popularity. Makes sense.

Roy wrote:Hi,

The first copy of the Boat Builder's Manual I owned was a late-70's edition and Walbridge described both C-1 and OC-1 bulkheads. He called them "bulkhead machines."

When I first met Bob Kauffman in 1980 he had a wildwater C-1 with Ethafoam machines. Bob learned boat building and outfitting from John Sweet. I had bulkhead machines in both a C-1 and OC-1 shortly after I met Bob.

My impression was that some people who really wanted aluminum machines but who didn't want to futz with the aluminum went with foam machines. Under my shed right now is an end-hole C-2 from ~1970 which has original glass machines.

The final word would probably have to come from Sweet or someone like that.

Roy

John Sweet could give you a more definitive answer, but I can confirm a good deal of what Roy posted. Foam bulkheads do indeed pre-date 1980. I personally installed one in a Gemini III C-2 in the winter of 1978-1979 using materials purchased from John Sweet (Sweet Composites). Minicell was not as readily available at that time, so most of the early foam bulkheads were made of ethafoam, which was narrower and more abrasive than minicell.

One of the options that I discussed with John in '79 was using aluminum machines, which had been one of the common thigh brace methods for C-1 slalom boats during preceding years. Aluminum machines were strips of aluminum around 3/32 to 1/8 inch thick and perhaps 1.5 - 2 inches wide. You bent them into a horse-shoe or "U" shape with prongs extending an inch or two out at right angles from each of the vertical sides. You mounted the horse-shoe upside down and laid-up resin and cloth overtop of the prongs to secure it to the inside of the hull. Much as with a foam bulkhead, aluminum machines weren't adjustable, and similarly had no "release" option.

Aluminum machines were often paired with an aluminum thwart seat made out of a 4 inch wide aluminum strip bent into a wider and flater version of the machines, in which the "tabs" were bolted to the underside of the deck with the seat suspended a few inches below the coaming. This was an improvement over the glassed-in 1x3 inch pine thwart running across the boat from seam to seam, as the suspended aluminum seat at least lessened the entrapment danger on each side in the spaces from the coaming to each seam. Molded composites seats suspended from the underside of the deck were also used, but I don't remember pedestal seats commonly being used until a couple of years after that.

John