C-Forum

So, who's got a Groove? Any one know how many were built? How many in K-1 and C-1?
If you own one let me know your thoughts on paddler weight and size.

Mick

I have two - a Riot prototype plastic one, and a Massive (not Murky waters!) Groove I had custom built. There are at least 10-20 C1 Grooves kicking around out there (perhaps more), and it is still in production (Murky Waters)

I can bring it to the Armada if you want to try it out - but neither are for sale:)

Great surfing boat... if you can get on the wave (stability and bow catching issues).

For an all around surfer, for comfort and stability, and river running, I think the Sith is a better boat.

No boat I've ever been in beats the Groove for looseness on a wave though! But as i said, you have to get there first:)

I've never paddleda Massive Groove (never found one to try that I could actually fit), but I have a plastic Riot Groove. And I weigh about 190 lbs.
It is an interesting boat for sure. In displacement mode, i.e when not planing while surfing on a wave, it's a touchy. There is one edge you have to worry about. It goes all the way around the boat. The boat is the widest at it's edge and has a massve amount of tumblehome. It thus has minimal primary stability. Secondary stability is none existant. Tertiary stability however, i..e. when upside down, is quite excellent. It has not much forward speed and the nose wants to dive continuously.
It is quite possibly the scariest boat I have ever taken down the Ottawa.
Once you manage to get on a wave however, there is a huge transformation, the boat literally takes off when it gfets on plane and it flyes down the wave. gone is the slowness and and it gets pretty stable , too. Carves very nicely, too spins by itself. just watch those edges, once they catch you're gone.

Overall I love the boat, challenging, keeps you on your toes all dfay nong and makes you a better boater. Surfs on most waves are hard earned, but hugely fun.

If you have a good wave with easy eddy access it rocks. When riverrunning it will beat you up.
And having paddled one makes me appreciate Paul Danks and Ian Thomson's Skills, as showcased in 'Main Stream' and other films by Ben Aylsworth even more.

TGG!

Adam,
I've already got one. I picked it up last year and only paddled it 3 times. Twice in the pool and once on a flat water river. It is the K-1 version. (which is why it's had limited use by me!)
Today I pulled the foam seat out and jumped in it C-1 style with no outfitting. I felt much more comfortable C style! Although trying to get the trim correct I noticed that my #170 keeps it planted down in the water pretty good. The tips were just out of the water by 1/2 inch. The next logical step is to glue some foam into it and see if I can deal with the limited knee spread due to the K style cockpit. I guess if I was ambitous I could cut the deck for a C-style rim to get the room...........
Just thinkin...


Mick

Mick, I've got a Sith with your name on it.

I don't know about the K1 versions, but on their should be a built tag on it showing if it is cut down at all... and who made it (Massive or Murky most likely - Murky made almost all of them I think). You can track Ian or Paul (designers) down and they could give you more hints on the K1 version than i can - though it is similar, it IS different.

If you can fit in without tweaking the cockpit rim I would - that is a rare boat you have...I think there are more C1's than K1's of it out there....

Crazy thing, theres no build card! When I got it it was naked - no outfitting.
I'll shoot some photos today and attach them to this thread.
The boat is in 98% new condition. It's sparkley baby blue, very pretty.

I was about 205-210 when I tried one - everything they said times 2.

As far as I know the (production) Massive boats were all built by Murky Waters, Ed does subcontract for other boatbuilders. Ian and paul designed the boat and made the Proto's and then marketed them.

another interesting thing I learned from Ed when visiting his shop last year was that the Massive Air and the Departure are a variation of the same hull, the Departure apparently is pretty much an extremely cut down version of the Air.

I did not knw that they made a k1 version of the groove, it would be interesting to see pictures.

TGG!

Sparkley Baby-blue!

Wow. I'd always heard there was a k-1 version of the Groove, but have never seen one until now. What you have there is, as Adam said, is an extremely rare boat. It looks to me like it's narrower than the C-1 version, so I'd say you'd have to be a SERIOUS glutton for punishment to paddle it as a C-1, since you still have to be a glutton for punishment to paddle the C-1 version.

I'd shoot Ed at Murky Water an email and see what he can tell you about it.

Jeremy

Mick you will of course be bring that to Cquirt? Correct? LOL

The 2 times I paddle a Groove the boat owned me!

But it was fun!

Nice! I saw that one up on eBay I think... and was VERY tempted!

Glad you wound up with it:) .

It should be, ah, *interesting* as a C1. And that coming from me should say something

I would actually be tempted to paddle it as a kayak (gasp), as I'll bet it would be a blast.


And not all production Grooves were built by Murky:) Ian had someone building boats for a short time - I purchased mine directly from him, no Murky tag on it either. But that was when he first started out I think... I purchased my groove in the spring of 1999. Might be the only foam core carbon kevlar groove out there - I'm not sure.

I just put a tape on it and it's 26" at it's widest piont. and 7'-11"1/2 long. The c-Boats library lists the C-1 as 30.5" wide and 8' long. Jeremy gets the prize for noticing that. I guess I'll keep the outfitting loose for now in case some one wants it more that I do....

Mick

I got this from Ed at Murky Waters today:

Yes there exists a mold for the K1 Groove. Ian wanted to make a planing hull squirt kayak and designed the K1 Groove, actually made a pretty good surf design if full size.
Not sure of the actual numbers but have records of all that were made and all were made for Ian's company Massive. We did not put our labels in at that time. Adam's C1 Groove was made by us as well, I remember it quite well, I think it weighed about 17 lbs before outfitting.

As far as I know, all the composite Grooves were made by us, as we built the mold. The agreement we had with Ian, was that the boat was built for Massive, much like the agreement we had with Eric and Angst.

All the best,
Ed