C-Forum

I'm 5'10" 200lbs and presently paddle a WS Big EZ and a Nomad 8.5, both conversions, as well as a Pyranha Prelude. I'm looking for a pure river runner. Something I can paddle Class II III with, catching eddies, ferrying and a little front surfing. Is the RPM Max the answer? I've never been in one and am looking for some opinons.

Thanks, Ryan.

Did that once on an RPM, a long time ago. Not worth it, supper flippy. But my roll became real good.

It is an old boat, if you go retro, go for the dancer prob is a better choice. Those thigns still around?

nam

In my opinion, to get a good conversion, you need a kayak with a rather firm primary stability and good secondary stability. While the RPM Max was better than the RPM in those respects, it wasn't good enough.

class II-III pure river runner? how about a slalom boat or an old viper.
or maybe an (i can't believe i'm saying this) atom. It's the c-version of an rpm

I love the Atom and if it were just a C-1 version of the RPM I'd highly recommend converting the RPM... but I'm not sure I'd call it that at all. I've heard it called the C-1 version of an RPM many times, but 1. it's almost a foot longer, still over 6 inches longer than the RPM max 2. it's another 2 inches wider (almost the same as the RPM max) but despite this it does not have much more volume than the RPM-- and it's actually got a lot less volume than the Max. There is none of the roundness on the top or bottom that the RPM has, the deck is almost entirely flat, and the edges seem MUCH more well defined. It's got a LOT of stability, and it's not all in the added length and width-- the hull's a significantly different design.

I wasn't trying to imply that the atom was just an rpm kayak in c-1 clothing (like the big dog oc-1)
But both were introduced in the same year, by the same company, and they both have the same stern and similar pointy front end and the same intended purpose.....it's the closest thing I can think of to an rpm, but it's a real c1. Which is what the OP was asking about.


definately not my favorite boat, but I'll agree the atom was excellent for one thing.... the pedestals that we rob out of 'em!

The atom's weird for sure, but I like it... it seems that a lot of creekboater types can't get used to it's twitchiness (and lack of volume)... at the same time a lot of slalom boater types don't get why you'd pretend to make a fast edgy boat but then make it weigh 50 pounds and chop 3 feet off it. However for tight rocky rivers (not steep rivers, just technical ones) it's plastic and relatively short compared to slalom boats while still being fast and responsive. I'm not going to say it's the most capable or reliable boat for running the crazy stuff (that stern grabs at the most inopportune times!) but it makes for good fun days out on the water.

Hey, Plumbpass. I agree the Dagger RPM Max is not the answer to your river-running quest. Consider a Wave Sport "Z". I wonder if the Godzilla (one for sale in Richmond) or Redline would work for you. Anyone got an opinion on those boats for his weight range?

I've been paddling my Atom since it came out 12 years ago and I like it just fine. It's pretty much a shorter, plastic version of the Viper c-1 and runs stuff fairly well. It's not a great boat, nor a creek boat, but I've run mine down the Gauley, Yough, and New (up to 6.8 feet at the Fayette Station gauge) and had a great time on those rivers. 200 lb. may be a bit much for that boat in that the edges are more immersed in the water. Not sure what other c-boaters have against the Atom but I like it and would get another when the plastic wears out on this one.

KNeal

I think 200 lbs may be a fine weight for the Atom, actually... I'm about 160 pounds but enough of it is in the water for sure-- even at my weight which I gather is very light for the boat, it's still very "edgy", and the stern edges at least are under the water most of the time anyways so a heavier paddler might not find that their weight makes the boat twitchier.
Either way, I've definitely heard that "180+ pounds is a good weight for the atom if you want to stern squirt it", and 200 pounds isn't too much of a stretch from that statement... so I'd guess it's okay, plus again those edges are never going to be completely out of play for anyone-- I feel like someone who is heavier would have an easier time throwing the boat around but would not feel like they were sinking it too deeply, the edges below the water a bit is sort of the "standard" feel of the boat...

Larry Horne---- Probably Andy Bridge had a big hand in Atom design, but not at all in RPM design.

Speaking as a Dagger Zealot owner, I think the Atom is a widened, shortened version of a slalom boat. It is not related to the Viper or to any kayak as much as it is a Zealot for the masses.

The Viper is much more like slalom c-1s being used in the mid 80s. By ten years later, with the Olympics coming up on a rather long and heavy water course, any slalom boat with a side-slicey bow like a Viper was doomed to failure. The bows of all the slalom c-1s were thickened and slabby sides were added to enable speed and control when slamming into big waves.

So in my opinion, the Atom mainly resembles the Zealot. It does not resemble the Maverick. It has only mild resemblance to the Fanatic II. The answer to the origin of the Atom is to look at what slalom boat the designers were working on at the time.

is the big ez not a pure river runner?

Dagger Redline comes close to the shape of an RPM, but has a flatter hull and harder chine. Works fine as a C-1.

Someone asked about the Godzilla. A guy in our area paddled a converted Godzilla for years, and swore by it.