C-Forum

I'm trying to learn airscrew/ donkey flip type moves on waves. I paddle c1 and I am having a bit of trouble can anyone give me any pointers or videos? Issues I am having are initiating them and staying straight. Spinning fast (and the rotation in general) and not ending up as a pan am or in a sidesurf. Thanks

For a start the Donkey Flip and the Airscrew are very different moves.

In an airscrew you're taking a massive buttbounce then as soon as you feel the takeoff throwing your weight to your offside and righting yourself... The advice that helped me was not to try to do an aerial back deck roll, but to throw my body under the offside with my paddle at 90 to the boat, and then use a massive c to c roll/ high brace type stroke to provide the righting moment

In a donkey flip you start facing backward (though some contend that starting from forward with a 180 spin is easier) and again get aerial and inverted, however as soon as you get inverted you need to throw your body upward and upstream (like the "superman position" as you throw a loop) before finishing as you would a waveloop.

Are you sure thats what a donkey flip is? In kayaking at least the difference between the two is how much of the rotation is done in the air. What you are describing seems to be something like wipe or something.
Good advice on the high brace technique for airscrews. I hadn't thought of that and I definitely was going for the aerial backdeck roll. My only concern is if I under rotate I would be in a vulnerable position to have my shoulder injured.

or maybe you are referring to a flip turn?
http://www.freestylekayakmoves.com/flipturn.php
this probably is just different terminology in different places

Sorry, I had my wires crossed with pistol flipping.

A donkey flip is a wet version of the airscrew., a pistol flip is a fully aerial flipturn

Ok so Airscrew in a C1:

One of the most challenging moves out there for a C1 paddler. Personally I would say it is more difficult than a Helix or Pistol Flip.

The Problem is that in C1 the center of balance is higher and it is extremely difficult to avoid landing in side surf. With airscrew/donkey flip you should land in front surf with +-15dg or so tolerance.

When you land in a side surf it is usually labelled as a Pan Am.

Pan Am is however a very spectacular move and it is kinda easy in a C1.

What u do is exactly what Krikkit has said. Go down the wave. Bounce hard with carve to your onside. Than throw your body weight to the offside and initiate back deck roll reflex...


The bounce before the rotation

Throwing body weight to the offside and leaning back

Aerial part of the rotation body weight moves to the center of the boat and forward from the previous setup.

This video is from Lyon, the last move of the ride is effectively a Pan Am (Over vertical aerial rotation landing in back/side surf)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NsS95-- ... r_embedded

I feel like a general aviation pilot listening in on a conversation with aerobatic pilots.

thanks for the tips guys, I think I will wait until I have access to a bigger wave before continuing my airscrew endeavours which brings me to my next question about pan ams. I watched your video(s) and you can throw them very nicely and I was wondering do you just throw a blunt but go over vert or do you do a different manoeuvre? This thread might have to be changed to pan am help.

sbroam, I hear yah. I am reminded of a line by Lonesome George Gobel uttered on Johnny Carsons show years ago. He was with Dean Martin and maybe Frank Sinatra. He looks around and says "Do you ever feel like a pair of old brown shows & the rest of the word is a tuxedo?" Lol

The bounce is pretty much the same as for a regular blunt. The bodyweight shift after the bounce is different. If you wanna do a Pan Am you have to lean backwards after the bounce and throw the boat above your body.

You can practice it on flatwater. Just paddle forward pretty hard, then do the bounce, and do a quick back deck roll so that you finish as if in a backsurf or sidesurf. Make the roll really snappy and you ve got exactly what you wanna do on the wave.