C-Forum

How would you compare Esquif Zephyr and Whitesell Whirlwind hulls in stability, surfing, chines, edges, etc for a class III paddler? I'm old school and have paddled Whitesell Piranha, Perception HD-1, Mohawk Rogue, Outrage for reference. Don't plan on paddling larger water at my age. Thanks!

very different, whirlwind soft chines no tumblehome lots of rocker. Zephyr hard chines tumblehome less rocker. I found the whirlwind easy to roll, dry even for me at 260lbs, and spins on a dime. The zephyr is extremely light, carves well due to the chines but is much wetter there is also the issue of cracking. If you think of the Zephyr as a very tough composite boat then you will be ok. I haven't had a lot of time in the Zephry but have in the Whirlwind. The wirlwind surfs well, loves Witches Hole, rolls easy, and is relatively stable. Things I would like better on the boat would be tumblehome and some edges. I am currently paddling a Viper 12 and have found it to be similar in legth, faster, more stable,I have stood up in it, and surfs just as well. If you can find a good Wirlwind it is a good boat. Not quite as snappy into an eddy as a boat with edges though. Between a Zephyr and a Whirlwind I would take the Viper 12.

I'll look at the Viper 12. I own a Zephyr. Took me at least 10 trips to get used to the hull. Planning vs displacement on most of my other boats I preveiously owned. But I went back and read about the Whirlwind chines and it confused me a little. I guess it doesn't have the "bulge" in it like the Piranha. I may have found a Whirlwind and I have a possible buyer for my Zephyr. Nolan stated on his site,

"The Whirlwind is a dramatic variation for Whitesell, filling a void in the 12 foot market which previously had no high performance, yet paddler friendly boats. This narrow straight-side hull is asymmetrical and very dry running and stable. It utilizes a sharp chine to allow outside pivot turns but is not "grabby" like other 12 footers, allowing that side surfing fun you don't want to give up as well as allowing an inside-lean spin in critical "must-make" moves on tight creeks. Whitesell's stable-with-water and easy-to-roll characteristics are incorporated in this boat as well!"

That "sharp chine" confused me a bit.

Also, he indicates the Whirlwind is 35 lbs not outfitted, but 45 lbs outfitted. I'm sure the Perception saddle adds most of this weight. But my Zephyr is 37 lbs not outfitted. 2 Lb. difference. Every pound counts as you age!!! That's one reason I bought the Zephyr - lighter than most boats out there.

I appreciate any comments on this. I really admire Class 4/5 boaters, but realize my goals and limitations. So thanks for your advice in advance!

The Whirlwind is very different from the Descender/Piranha. It does have sharper edges then those two boats and more like a contemporary boat. That said compared to a Zephyr or Viper it is not that edgy. The weight is hugely dependent on which layup you have in the Whirlwind. I have both a Tuff layup and a Light. They are noticably different. Outfitting is the other place to save/gain wieght.

Why are you getting rid of the Zephyr?

Where are you located? I have both a Viper 12 and Whirlwind you can try.

http://www.millbrookboats.com/
If I wanted a light 12' boat, I think I'd get a Rumba or a Rival from Millbrook. I couldn't own the Rival on the Millbrook site, though. Too pretty.

Green River/Saluda NC area. Noticed the Viper 12 is back up in the 48 lb area. Whirlwind I've located is Tuff layup rather than Lite. I don't care for the Perception saddle; so, I would replace with foam. Not worrying about rolling at my skill level.

Great question, why sell the Zephyr? Always been a fan of Nolan's design. Met him years ago - nice guy. He let me demo a Piranha, but it was quite large and I'm pretty short - so I'm leaning it over trying to get a decent stroke. Tried out a Piranha recently, but it's still huge and heavy. I'd forgotten how big it was.

Guess I thought the Whirlwind would have less of an edge than my Zephyr since I'm used to more rounded edge from years gone by (think Mohawk Rogue - another Nolan design and Vladmir's Noah Jeti (sorry, but I still have two of them). I think the Zephyr's edge is gonna grab me on faster moving eddy lines. (Again, I'm just running rivers and playing a little. Learning to whip into an eddy with the knee pressure in the Zephyr.) Plus I would like something a little more dry.

Hope all this doesn't sound too wimpy, but again, I appreiciate you more experienced guys chiming in with some wisdom here. If I had stayed in the sport since I started in 1987 and not taken a long break, I probably would be paddling larger stuff now. But be assured, there are plenty of us who are inspired by you guys!

Thanks, I'll take a look a the Rival and Rumba as well.

Not everyone likes the Rival. I love it. Nice size, fairly light, not a hard-chined boat but still performs well. I've reconditioned two and sold them to guys in your area (one in Mount Holly, one in Asheville). I've got a third one sitting in my storage area waiting for me to get the time to put new gunwales on it. Mine have all been Royalex or Royalite. The Millbrook ones are kevlar/glass. If you want to demo one of the Royalex ones, let me know. I'm near Charlotte. I have other boats you could test drive also -- Shaman, Probe 11, Prelude.

Note - the Whirlwind may have been made by Whitesell but it was designed by somebody else (Dave Sherril?) And also sold as a Sequel by Blue Hole.

Thanks to all of you offering a demo of these different boats. Also, you're right, the Whirlwind is not a Whitesell design. I forgot about that.

I was at the Nantahala today and stopped by to inspect the Whirlwind in Whitesell's window.

Definately old schoo...but so am I.

you ever check out a Spark... seems it's 11 something, quick, lighter than most... not real edgy ...and runs dry.

The Spark is a fun boat, real fast and pretty responsive. Depending on your weight, I think, it can feel pretty unstable though. This obviously isn't the only factor in stability, but if nothing else at 24" wide it's one of the skinniest OC-1's I've paddled.

A friend has a Sequel - my impressions - light, nimble, NOT edgy, a bit wet (seemed like it didn' have much freeboard w/220# in it). Not a bad little boat. There is a chance this one could be for sale...

My own Zephyr - light, familiar because almost all of my current/past boats have edges (Viper, Slasher, SF), fast, the material is a concer (but not major) - as suggested above, think of it as a tough composite boat.

Yes, it was designed by David Sherrill just a few miles from where you live. It is superior in every way to the Zephyr, IMHO but they are as noted very different boats. Not only is the Z hard to get used to and hard to roll but every single one I know of, except for one, has cracked. It is like a glass boat that you can't repair yourself.

I have had two Whirlwinds. My absolute favorite design. You could run the biggest water and steepest creeks in it but since you want to paddle class III you will love it too. It is predictable, fast, turns well, dry...everything you could want in a 12-footer. If you have a chance to get one, SNATCH IT FAST or else I might! ;O)

One last word about the Whirlwind. If you put one on the ground next to an outrage you will see how similar they are. The WW has a blunter nose and the sides are straighter, but the length and rocker are almost the same.