Boat/Outfitting question (OC2). Advice for a newbie? Please.

[MrJack]

I just took a beginner OC2 Whitewater class. I had a great time. I am looking for a whitewater boat but they seem to be hard to find. I am going to continue searching the web. In the meantime, I have a 16' old town penobscot that I currently use on slow moving rivers.

My question is this... would it be worth putting some money into knee pads and floatation so my OC2 partner and I can continue to work on eddy turns, ferries, peel outs, strokes, etc. on class 2 rivers until I can buy a WW specific boat? I know the rocker on this boat is minimal (less than an inch). Can you even do eddy turns, ferries, etc. in this boat? I see myself always keeping the Penobscot to use for lakes, slow rivers, canoe camping, etc.

My budget is pretty limited as I am saving for a WW boat, but I was thinking it may be worth having the knee pads/floatation for the Penobscot anyway. In the future I may do some paddling and canoe camping on rivers that have some class 2 WW with long stretches of flat water.

If you recommend getting float bags, should I get a bow/stern set or just a center bag? And finally... what is the easiest effective way to secure the float bags? Is there a kit or something I should buy? I thought it would be nice to rig the floatation in a way that would be conducive to strapping down camping gear in the future (d-rings, etc).

I really appreciate your time and any advice you can give. Obviously I am new to this. Thanks!

[ezwater]

You can certainly do eddy turns and practice ferrying, etc., in a Penobscot, though you will have to be deliberate in your leans, and the boat will respond less readily.

Knee cups would help. I don't think it is worthwhile to put in thigh straps. As for flotation, if you are practicing tandem , you won't have room for the size end bags you will want when you get a whitewater boat. Maybe a cheap center bag, or tie in a truck inner tube if you can find one.

Progress deliberately and you may not have much need for flotation. A friend of mine twice won the downriver Southeasterns race on the Nantahala in a Penobscot, and he didn't use flotation. He just bailed on the flatter sections.

[Fleetwalker]

I've been using a Penobscot 16' (mostly) solo for the NECKRA downriver races, and at least two of the veterans in the circuit also paddle that boat. Of course, downriver racing is a little different than playboating or even trying to descend a river with finesse. But my experience is that it is great boat for river running. I've found it really dry. It turns well, but it needs some room, so you probably aren't going to hit those microeddies.

I put front and end bags in the boat, with semi-permanent cages. I drilled holes in the hull, and glued down patches, and in general following the outline at http://jbrentoliver.com/camping/canoe_endbags.shtml.

After I dumped on the Scantic in race #1, I decided to add a set up for a center bag. Since I sometimes paddle tandem (or need to leave the carrying thwart available for portages), I didn't want a permanent cage. So I drilled the hull every 4" or so along most of the length and wove parachute cord in-and-out. When the cord runs on the inside of the boat I attached prussik loops. So, if I need to put the center bag in, I can run cord across the boat from loop to loop, allowing me to put a cage wherever I need it. Otherwise the loops are there for trying things down or attaching things with carabiners like water bottles or GPS. It's worked reasonable well.

Hope that makes some sense.

[philcanoe]

yes - yes - yes

[2opnboat1]

i agree with Phil but you should just order a Prob 14t

[MrJack]

I really appreciate everyone's advice. I would love to just order a new boat, but not sure I can really afford it. I may call Mohawk tomorrow and get an exact quote including all outfitting.

How tough are these boats? One of my concerns with buying a new boat to learn in would be the possibility of damaging it during the learning process. I guess it is always a possibility, but seems more likely when you are a beginner.
On the other hand, I guess it isn't likely that I will find a used one with everything just like I want it, which may mean dumping more money into a used boat on top of the price I pay for it.

Hmmmm tough decisions. I'm thinking to start with I could just put about 4 D-rings around the middle of the penobscot. This would allow me to hold a center float bag in place and also serve as tie down anchors for canoe camping in the future. This center float bag with a couple pairs of knee pads would probably be enough to get us started. Although... just those things begin to add up.

Hope everyone enjoyed their weekend. Thanks again for your advice.

[philcanoe]

whoa Mr. jack....

For a center bag - all you really need for light-to-medium duty white water (Class II-III) is this method of cross tie (instead in the middle - not ends): http://www.mohawkcanoes.com/outfit_lacing.html.

Will cost you a little bit of good quality string (3-4 dollars worth) and a drill. When not in use simply unlace. This will not hurt that Penobscot at all. Majority of everyone here uses this type of lacing, however with a overstrap (end to end) for more intense water. Just make sure to also tie all four corners, on that center bag.



For knee pads glue down some soft 'close-cell foam', to where ever you choose to paddle (kneel) from. Use (waterproof) contact cement - follow directions on can - weldwood in red can. Works way better than store bought knee pads, there is no such thing a comfortable pair when wet.

[Sir Adam]

If you are just starting out, there are two paths to take to keep things less expensive:
1) Try out as many boats as you can in the area (or out of - ALF, or any "Armada" is a great place to get in lots of boats if you make the effort), then purchase new what you like
2) Find something that sort of fits the bill used cheap, paddle it a while and see how it goes.

A lot of use here have gone through many different boats, and different phases. Different times in our paddling "lives" have called for different craft. When you're just starting out it's hard to figure where to start sometimes. I would recommend a boat you feel very comfortable in, vs. one that makes you push the limits a little so you can comfortably work on your technique. That is a personal preference though (personally after getting "comfortable" I moved on to rather difficult boats where the learning curve was rather steeper).

have fun, and don't take it all TOO seriously. It's all about getting out there on the water and enjoying it.

Welcome!

[ncdavid]

Where are you located, MrJack?

[MrJack]

Where are you located, MrJack?

Hey,
I'm in marietta, GA. The class I took was through the GCA up on the Tuck.

[ncdavid]

Here's a nice looking Dagger Caper in West Virginia-- http://swv.craigslist.org/spo/1811855652.html Not my boat.

I had a tandem Caper for a few years. Fine boat, and that's a nice price.

[Todhunter]

Where are you located, MrJack?

Hey,
I'm in marietta, GA. The class I took was through the GCA up on the Tuck.

Are you stuck on OC-2, or are you interested in OC-1 also?

There are lots of paddlers in your general area. I'm down in Newnan. Mr. Deadlegs is up in Marietta. If you are interested in trying out some OC-1's, my dad and I have 4 different ones between us, and Mr. Deadlegs has a few.

My dad and I started by running easy stuff in a Discovery 169, and then got some center flotation for it, put some skid plates on it, and did some II-III in it. While the Penobscot is not ideal for whitewater, it can (and has already) been done. Get some center flotation for it and some knee cups if you are going to run some WW in this boat.

[Mr.DeadLegs]

I am in Marietta near the river. If you want to go out and try some boats let me know, I have a few and would be glad to take you out.

[MrJack]

I don't want to jinx anything, but it looks like I have found a boat. I am meeting a guy with a Probe 14 on Thursday.

Thanks for everyone's advice, and I will DEFINITELY have more questions once I get the boat and get it on the river. Thanks!