Saddle Height (question about comfort)

[MrJack]

I am new to the sport. I realize the importance of good outfitting (good fit) when it comes to good control of your boat.

During the two day WW canoe class I took I also realized it is not exactly comfortable for me to kneel for extended periods of time. I am trying to find a good balance between good fit, and comfort.

Right now the saddle height in my canoe (probe 14 tandem) is 8.5'' I am MUCH more comfortable if I add about 1-1.5'' of extra height.

Will a 9.5'' or 10'' saddle be too high? I am 6'2''

Also, when I put the tops of my feel flat on the hull, I am more comfy than when I use the foot pegs. When I use the foot pegs, the ends of my toes just jam into the hull and I feel like I really need the saddle to be higher.

My left knee is a little tweaked due to a running related over-use injury. I am hoping to be 100% recovered from that within a few weeks, but I am sure it is somewhat contributing to the discomfort to some degree.

Any advice? Thanks!

[TheKrikkitWars]

I paddle with 10"(prelude) and 12"(cu fly) saddles and I've raised my footpegs, so I can have my feet flat under them and my heels on the pegs.

You sacrifice stablity as you go higher mind, you may find there's a max height of saddle you can feasably paddle at due to stability.

[Todhunter]

Do you have ankle blocks? Installing them made a HUGE difference in the comfort department for me. It takes the strain off your toes and distributes it across your lower shin / ankle. I highly recommend adding some. Just play with positioning and height (using duct tape or something) before you lock them in with contact cement. Shaving a concave surface into them makes them even better - remember - you want to distribute the load across as great an area as possible.

Also, what kind of footwear are you using? Something with a good reinforced toe will help make your feet more comfortable when on the pegs.

[cramersec]

are even better than ankle blocks. They support your whole lower leg and don't put excess pressure on the front of your ankle, which isn't built for pressure.

Steve

[Todhunter]

are even better than ankle blocks. They support your whole lower leg and don't put excess pressure on the front of your ankle, which isn't built for pressure.

Steve

Yeah, mine are more like shin blocks than ankle blocks, to be honest.

[DougB]

The higher your saddle the more angle on your thighs and the more your thigh straps will tend to slide down. I found this to be a bit of an issue when I used a 10" saddle. I agree with others on the ankle blocks - they do work. I also put 1/4" - 3/8" foam under my pegs for my toes to push into.

[MrJack]

Thanks for the tips, I will try to experiment around with some temporary fixes to see if I can get more comfortable. I'd like to figure out a way I can alternate between kneeling using the foot pegs and kneeling with the tops of my feet against the hull. I guess in both cases, ankle blocks would help.

It seems that in less technical sections, I could get get away with not having my feet pressing against anything. We'll see. Thanks for the info!

[ncdavid]

Yep. I lay a skin of foam down and put my ankle blocks on top of it. Sometimes I'm up on my toes with the pegs forward. Sometimes I'm resting on the ankle blocks with my feet lightly touching the pegs. Sometimes I slide off the blocks and just lay my feet flat on the foam skin. Good to have options.

[Craig Smerda]

Low enough to keep your center of gravity down... high enough to be comfortable for extended periods of time... and (some may differ) angled upward at the front to remove unecessary stress from your hips and knees.

Get your knee's out as wide as is comfortably possible. I see way too many people with their knee's closer to the saddle than the outside of the hull... the wider and lower you can comfortably get... the better control you'll have and the more likely you'll be able to roll. Close knees don't facilitate a good hip snap.

[Sir Adam]

What Craig said is extremely important IMhO - get those knees apart. I use NO ankle blocks any more, as I find they cut off circulation, and if I get my knees apart my feet aren't cranked out flat anyway - they are quite comfy.

In my C1's I like a 5-6" saddle (lower in the Mentor and Sith where my knees are waaay apart), though fondly recall my full cut Viper with 8" seat - comfy alll day long, and that was "old school" close knees too.

[Mike W.]

Another thing to consider is seat width. Shoot for 10" wide.

Ditto on the shin blocks. They'll distribute the pressure over a wider area than ankle blocks.

When I started in OC I used the foot-pegs. I had to use them to lock into the boat. I got away from OC for a few years, paddling only C-1. When I went back to OC I no longer needed the pegs. I rolled & played just fine w/o them.

[Pierre LaPaddelle]

Good comment about seat width, Mike W.

When I first outfitted my Ocoee, I actually built a 12" wide seat. It was dreamy to sit on -- like a couch. And it displaced more water than a skinny pedestal.

But then I got to worrying about not-much-room-between-the-seat-and-the-hull, and maybe getting feet trapped between seat and hull in a bad spill.

So I cut the width down to 9", and have both comfort, and room for easy exit.

But I agree with your intent -- 8" is too narrow for comfort.

[Marc Evans]

I'm 6'4" and started whitewater canoeing in a Probe 14. I had to have an ACL replacement a few years after starting and could not get in the boat without a 12" saddle. Lost some stability, but then again, the Probe 14 is a very forgiving platform. I have an 8.5" saddle in my Fink C1 and can only go about 2 hours, with breaks. In my Spanishfly I have a 10" saddle and can go all day, day after day. That boat is still very stable. So, my point is, you can go with a higher saddle in the Probe and do very well. It is all boat time - something I'm not getting enough of right now - ah, but next week is 100 miles of river bliss.

As Pierre LaPaddelle and Sir Adam have said, a wider seat is better (more comfortable) than a narrower one. Just make sure that it doesn't obstruct your exits. My seats are 9" wide in the SF and 12" in the Fink.

As for footpegs, I don't have any in my C1 and simply tuck my feet under the pegs in the SF and laying them flat. Works really well for me. However, I have bulkheads with thigh straps in both boats, so I am well attached to the boats. This makes weight shifts and rolling much easier.

As others have said, make sure you can spread your legs as far apart as possible.

Marc

[jscottl67]

You could also look at a wider saddle - I don't know why, but it makes a difference. Feet flat is definitely more comfortable with the same saddle height to me. I have AT issues from running, so my feet flat preference may be influenced by that slightly.

How high are your knee pads / ankle pads - think of the angles and total geometry of your setup. I like to be able to roll by heels inward slightly, if I can't my knees take a hit as well.

[MrJack]

After reading the helpful posts, I just did some measuring. Keep in mind I am paddling a tandem Probe 14.

My seat is only about 7 5/8'' high in the front and is probably 8.5''high toward the back (not including the "backrest"). As far as width... it is more narrorw toward the front (8'') and gets wider toward the back (9.25''). This width measurement is at the base of the seat where it is glued to the hull. It Is more narrow on the surface where I actually sit on it.

I paddled today with a piece of 2'' foam on top of my saddle. It helped A LOT! It was also a bit softer than minicell, so I may be able to get away with 1.5'' of added minicell.

I've been wearing a pair of vibram 5-fingers on my feet. I really like them, but they don't have any padding or protection for the tips of my toes. These are great for putting my toes straight back, but not good for using the foot pegs. I'm thinking foot pegs with some foam for the tips of my toes, and then some ankle blocks with no foot pegs out to the side so I have another option.

The added comfort of the extra seat height today was really nice. It made it a much more enjoyable experience since I wasn't constantly thinking about how uncomfortable I was. I'm optimistic I have lots of room for improvement. Thanks again for everyone's advice.