C-Forum

Hi folks,

I've got some fairly simple questions that I was hoping to get some help with. I have a Dagger Ocoee I bought last year as a step up from my older Mohawk Probe 12. The Ocoee is a great boat (holy edges batman!) but I'm having some trouble being comfortable in it for longer than 15-20 minutes. It has Mike Yee outfitting, with a 9" tall saddle. I'm a bigger guy at 6'2" with a 32" inseam, and I weigh about 220lbs.

I find it hard to get in the "correct" position where I can control the boat without keep my legs/ankles from going to sleep. I've tried paddling with my toes slipped under the foot pegs, or with the balls of my feet on the pegs and my heels vertical or angled out towards the side of the boat at various angles. None of these have worked particularly well. Adjusting the foot pegs forwards and back or playing with the strap length doesn't seem to do much. If I pull things tighter together I end up with my butt up off the saddle, and if everything is loosened off the boat feels sloppy (and kicks my butt!). I am interested in putting some ankle blocks in but I want to see if I can get the basic lower body position nailed down first.

I realize there is no golden answer to this, but I'd like to find out what's going on below the gunwales in other OC1s. What do you do with your feet? Toes pointed back, down, forwards, outwards? Do you have ankle blocks, and if so, where are they in relation to the saddle and knee cups? Any other modifications you've made to increase the comfort level?

Cheers!

Adam

I have a Probe 12 and I am about your size and had the same problem, added some ankle blocks, which did help some. It seems to help for the first hour or two, but after that, I really find my legs going to sleep., and having to stop every 30 minutes or so to get out and stretch. I think the biggest detriment is our weight. It might not be so bad if we weighed in the 175 range. I keep saying that to motivate me to loose weight, but being on the wrong side of 50, the weight seems to be tough to loose. Something I would like to ask is how much stability is lost going from the Probe to the Ocoee?

Have you thought about carving away a bit of foam from the saddle to round it a bit where your legs are fitting? A sharp edge of foam (although it is soft) may be hindering blood circulation on lower legs. On one of my boats I added about an inch of foam to the top of the saddle and it helped.

I use an Ocoee these days, and I trimed the saddle to just over 8" and have my foot pegs locking pins set at the fifth notch... I'm 6'2" and 230 going down... the saddle is not Mike Yee, but beluga Mustang with double tight srtaps and since I lowered it (the saddle) my legs are staying awake!

I paddle with the top of my feet flat on the hull and toes just touchuing the braces. I'd agree with checking the top edges of the pedestal and carving as necessary. I find for personal comfort the closer I get my feet to being under me the more comfortable I am. Hope this helps.
Bill

Like Bill, the tops of my feet are on the bottom of the boat. Instead of 'touching or pushing' my toes against the foot pegs, I have the foot pegs moved up with about 3 inches of room under them, to put your toes under... once you get ur toes under, about 1/3 of ur foot will go under it. basically up to the balls of ur feet. Also ankle/shin blocks work well with this, just make sure they aren't too high up, or it will be uncomfortable.

I find this very comfortable on the ankles, as it's way less pressure on ur foot and ankle. Once your ankles get stretched(u can do this watching tv)...you can sit in this position for hours upon hours without it really bugging you.

Also. When most people get ripped out of their footpegs, because they are on the balls of their feet. By having your feet under the foot pegs, you have to put a considerable effort on getting out of the boat. Which in my opinion is a huge benefit, as you hardly ever get ripped out of the boat. I don't know if I ever have...and I get chundered often. Being stuck in your boat more, might help you to work on ur roll/stay with ur roll, as opposed to bailing out of the boat quickly.

Ejection botton(pushing out of the boat), should be last option.

You also have your weight lower with ur feet flat like that, allowing you to have more stability, and overall control. Being a tall person, getting your weight as low as possible is probably going to be pretty important.

Foot position is (has to be) all about comfort, I keep my feet totally flat (and raised my footpegs so my heel is on it and the top of my foot is flat to the boat.

However most of the older people I paddle with in OC prefer a half and half with small ankle blocks, I find that setup causes me calf pain.

Also note that positions which are at either extreme are ergonomically sub par, I've spent enough time in my boat to have shortened my tendons in the back of my calves :S

Thanks for all the quick replies folks!

dwd58 - The changeover from the Probe to the Ocoee wasn't as bad as I expected. The edges certainly required me to pay attention more for the first few hours, but I didn't feel like it was a huge effort to stay upright. They still catch me off guard from time to time, but that's life in an edgy boat I guess The Ocoee feels slower than the Probe and is definitely more prone to spinning, but you can use the edges to your advantage to keep things on a straighter course. I thought the Ocoee was a great step up from the Probe if that's what you are thinking.

craig - thanks for that idea, I may try it. My Probe had a round edged saddle and now that I think of it, it did feel comfier (or maybe that's just wishful thinking?!)

Lappie - I feel like trimming the saddle down may make things worse. Depending on the footpeg/thighstrap position I have a hard enough time staying in contact with it now.

Bill/FGOC/TKW - Thanks! I'm glad to hear that paddling "flatfooted" with my toes pointed to the back is not as frowned upon as I thought it was (not sure where I got that idea...). This is the most comfortable option, although still not great. I'm still interested in trying out some ankle blocks to see if I can improve my comfort level.

If anyone else has input I'm still all ears (really eyes I guess!)

Cheers!

James Weir shaped a piece of foam that slid back under his airbag which held him securely when the bag was properly inflated. The foam acted as ankle block and foot form...he cut out a spot for his toes and it was very comfortable. He used it with a foam bulkhead style saddle. Maybe he'll post some photos...

If you put your feet under tyhe pegs, make sure that they cannot get pinched or stuck between the hull and the pegs under any circumstances. Account for flexing of the hull in case of a broach ar a pin against a rock. If you have your feet flat on the bottom of the boat and underneath the footpegs, make also suyre you gle some foam on the bottom of the hull as padding.

TGG!

I'm with Craig - shape your saddle to fit your personal curves.

Ankle/shin foam can help too, but if it's so high that it raises your lower leg, it will close the angle behind your knee and make circulation worse; so, try it just as supporting what's natural, not lifting. It's hard to know what's helping and what's hurting, so don't be shy about cutting and glueing (and re-cutting and re-glueing) to try different heights over time.

Pat.

When my feet are flat on the hull I had the toe blocks(in this case Yakima foot braces) very close to the hull to keep my toes from goimg under them. I kept imagining amputated toes!
Bill

Try 1) ankle blocks (but with experimentation as to the height/position as Yarnell notes) and 2) yoga. Increasing your flexibility helps.

I've not tried it myself, but I've heard others swear by wider saddles to spread your weight a little more. From what I've read, users have actually been able to have a lower saddle height when the saddle is wider - maybe someone will pipe in that has one. I think Mike Yee has a wider version.

On my Ocoee, I ran at 7" and it was pretty comfortable (feet flat). I used some pre-fabbed foot pads (got at REI or something) and they worked well enough for me.

So this is what I have come up with thus far.

I widened the saddle, glued in a pair of ankle blocks and some padding for the toes/feet. I also added a Nalgene holder.



From the back


From the front


Bottle in


Bottle out


Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it out this weekend and see if the comfort has improved!