I owned an Ocoee (tweaked a bit) and absolutely loved it. It was a very wet boat and the bow would plow under a wave if you hit it dead on. Of course, the tweaking made that worse than factory (shortened thwarts 2" in front close to 3" in rear, couple inches trimmed from the top) and a stock Ocoee that I've paddled seemed a lot drier than my boat.
Paddled a Viper 11 for about 10 minutes and was similar, but not as edgy at the ends and a little more forgiving. Stability was great in the Ocoee, but you better be ready if you stuck an end in a cross current.
With less paddling time for me, a Viper 11 would probably be the easier boat to hop into and go, but if I get more time on the water, an Ocoee would be at the top of my wish list.
I would love to get an original Occoee but they seem hard to come 'buy".
Joe sits on a the same wave at the play spot and his snoot rides nicely while I am sllcing and dicing my Viper 11 to keep the water out. The boat should come with dive brakes but then maybe it is the shape of the wave. There are other waves on the river, it is a smorgasbord. It can't be skill as Joe keeps tells me he quit paddling for 7 years.
I have owned 3- V11's; a Royalite that I demolished on a steep learning curve, and presently both a Royalex and a Kevlar. The interesting comparison is between the royalex and kevlar V11's. Kevlar gives the best acceleration and an improved carve and a great roll rate (side to side), it is big fun but expensive. The Royalex V11 gets me down creeks where my wallet won't fit.
I've paddled Ricks Occoee and like it. There isn't too much of an argument here, in the best of all worlds, they both rip it up in different styles and the challenge is to master both.
Craig Smerda wrote:
Just asking because someone was looking for a used Ocoee and I suggested they also look for a Viper... in case you happen to be curious why I'm asking.
For what it's worth, I was the guy who was asking about the Ocoee, and I am seriously considering the Viper 11 now. I won't know for sure until I demo one, but I think moving from a Probe 11 to a Viper 11 will be a smoother transition, allowing me to immediately progress into more difficult whitewater with less learning (read swimming) how to paddle the boat, as I feel I would be doing with the Ocoee.
Then again, if I find a Dagger Ocoee for sale, I might just buy that.
(Hm-m-m. . . I've been warned to stay on topic. . .)
Chris -- your reasoning is sound -- the V-11 is much closer to the Probe than would be the Ocoee. But if I can make the switch from a V-12 to the O, you should have no problem.
You would quickly adapt to the lesser secondary stability of the O, but would enjoy its improved maneuverability
Einar is right -- we swapped boats (his V-11 for my O) on the river one day, and the adjustment time for both of us was minimal.
The difference is he's a better paddler in either boat, but I'm much better looking.
That was my move, from a Probe 12 to a Viper 11.
Occoee or V11, I wouldn't be concerned, both are going to demand that you kick it up a notch in a good way. Those hull designs have been around a long time in a quickly changing OC world and paddlers are still buying them new and looking forward to it.
I started in an Esquif Vertige, then moved on to a Mohawk probe11; bought myself a Viper11 and after a year or 2 gave an Ocoee a test-drive.
Oc is much more agile then the viper, that's for sure. And the viper is much more responsive then the probe. I didn't notice any stability issues moving from viper to Ocoee.
I think it's not much of a difference: viper11 or Ocoee. They have both advantages and disadvantages, like every boat. But moving into one of these will challenge your paddling anyway in comparison to the probe.
Chris, i went from a Probe 11 to a Maxim, Then to a Detonator, then to a Viper 11. While I can't comment on the Ocoee, I will say that I wish I had gone from the probe to the Viper and skipped on the Maxim and Detonator. Not that there is anything wrong with those boats, the viper just suits my paddeling style better, and It would have been an easier transition.
My favorite all around boat, period. As to the Viper, only test paddled one once, so I can't say much about it.
I do wish I had the O earlier in my paddling career. All the hype about the hard chines had me worried. I took the newly outfitted O and my old Shaman (as a back up in case I was over my head) on a week long chase the water trip in 04 and never did paddle the Shaman. Had some great times on the Upper Cranberry, upper meadow and others.
Love the maneuverability. For me the only OC I paddled which was drier was the Zoom.
Sooooo.....anybody have a Viper 11 or a Dagger Ocoee lying around?
Seriously, now that I have been actively looking for the boat, I have yet to see a single Viper 11 hit the market. What makes it worse, someone is selling a Viper 12 in Binghamton (where i live) so I could have it tomorrow, if I was looking for a 12. Maybe I should just take a chainsaw to it and make myself an 11.
and absolutely loved it. It was a very wet boat and the bow would plow under a wave if you hit it dead on. Of course, the tweaking made that worse than factory (shortened thwarts 2" in front close to 3" in rear, couple inches trimmed from the top) and a stock Ocoee that I've paddled seemed a lot drier than my boat.
