C-Forum

OK, I have come to a crossroads in my whitewater life and am seeking advice.

I have been paddling an old Probe 11 for about two years. I like it, but I need a boat that is going to help me advance into the realm of IV+, maybe even higher.

Given these criteria, what would you pick?

I need a boat that is not going to limit me as I paddle bigger water, possibly Class V. Let's just use the UY and the Colorado as examples. I will probably not be creeking very much.

I need a boat that will be durable as I learn. My Probe was forgiving in the sense that hitting or scraping a rock didn't mean that I needed to whip out the Legos.

I would like a boat that is easier to roll than the Probe.

I need a boat that doesn't completely suck on flatwater. In a little over a year, I am going to be traveling North America extensively, and paddling whatever catches my eye. If I see a nice river or lake without rapids, I still want to be able to paddle it.

I know that it is hard to find a boat that matches all those characteristics, but if you had to pick, what would you get? Detonator or Ocoee?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

Viper 11 Similar in design to the Ocoee, better build quality, (the bell Ocoees I have seen have pretty much sucked. Better all around boat than the Detonator. And a far better price than either of the others.

My opinion (and I don't paddle IV - V whitewater) is that the detonator is a much more forgiving boat than the Ocoee so you won't get punished for your mistakes

The Ocoee, on the other hand, will make you learn what the water is doing, keep you on edge, and it will put you in the water if you not paying attention - even on class II/III. I believe the boat will make you a better paddler. Once you learn, the Ocoee can take you down pretty much any river - once you learn it you will love it, but it's more of a curve.

In my mind, it comes down to whether you are wanting to get on bigger water, or challenge yourself more.

Sounds like you have had a Detonator, how is it on a long stretch of flat water? not moving flat water, just still water? The Viper/Ocoee tracks pretty well. I think the Viper is a tad faster than the Ocoee.

both those boats are nice, maybe competitors like the zoom and maxim. i love the zoom for its easy roll.i weigh 160 and know how to take care of royalex. i think your next progression should be 8 and a half footer . flat water = a deficiet for the need to paddle ~the banjo music gets no louder

I've not owned a detonator, but I've paddled one a little bit. It's forgiving, fuller ends, drier. I've not paddled it on flat water...and I wouldn't want to.

Agree the Viper would be a great choice - was just keeping it to his original options. If go anywhere, big water, durability, and possibly a little flat water were on the list and you could go with anything I would say a Cascade C1 would be a good option. It's a good first C1 if you wanna go anywhere.

What is your size?

Flat water in any sort of boat is fun and it gives me a chance to work on technique. If it's bad I don't get anywhere.

The detonator was a great learning boat. Stable primary & secondary, surfs well, takes big water drops well. In fact, many open boaters I paddled with on the Noli flipped at Rooster tail. I never did, just blasted thru it. However, partly may have been them not familiar with the rapid. Cons: Is slower than the ocoee, so to me fairys were slower & harder since I couldn't get the speed up good in the boat. It would pretty much suck to paddle flatwater in it.
The Ocoee glides, in my opinion.. very responsive, easier to get up some speed for fairys.. Once you learn the edges, it is a joy to paddle. It does take drops well, and tracks well. It would be better to paddle on flatwater, but in general, most WW boats are not great to paddle on flatwater.
As far as wear...I absolutely wore out my detonator....the chines on the stern took a lot of punishment when I was learning. And so far the bell ocoee, I feel like I have to be pretty careful with it as it seems a bit softer material than the detonator.
Not sure this helps you much, but something to think about. I wouldn't go back to the detonator...is heavy & slow...I put wood gunwales on one thinking it would make it faster...NOT.
Good luck deciding!

ocoee

This from a Detonator fan: I would not want to paddle it for fun on slow or flat water. The Ocoee would be better for that. Both are good at harder whitewater.

I'm 5'11'' and around 200#, hopefully that will be going down after an offseason of strength and conditioning.

I had not considered the Viper, now I wonder about that as well.

And to answer a previous question, I am looking to challenge myself into becoming a better paddler. After ten minutes in an Ocoee, I knew I would have to develop either some serious paddling skills or swimming skills, possibly both.

OK, when the Viper is thrown in the mix, which one comes out on top?

Depending on the mix of flat, you might be happier with a Viper 12. It has edges too, but not carried out to the ends like an Ocoee. Will be a faster boat than an Ocoee, Det., Viper 11.

If you're in big water, will be drier than a Viper 11 as well. Not as snappy in the turns as an Ocoee, but no slouch either. If you aren't hitting boney water, consider a glass Viper - if not, it sounds like the RX on the Vipers is better than on the Bell Ocoee. Dagger Ocoees are getting scarce.

Hands down would take Ocoee. Ihave had all 3. The Ocoee is dry in big water compared to Viper. Agree with all other comments. Oh- Helly- I believe you meant slow to ferry, but got a good laugh from comments about Detonator and how it "fairys".

I have owned both:
Detonator, catches eddies fast, secondary on the edge solid, great for drop pool stuff. On the other side, it is slow downriver, heavy, and it wears out on the chines fast.
Ocoee faster downriver, dryer to me, is more at home on different types of water and a true classic. On the other hand more time is needed to get a feel for the edge, and you may want to outfit yourself if its a Bell.
If I had a choice I would prefer the Ocoee.

But for a IV+ why not the L'Edge?