THIS IS THE POINT WHERE SOME ONE SHOULD SAY THAT SAYIN ABOUT THE OBJECT OF LIVE IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE IN A WELL PRESERVE BODY BUT TO SLIDE IN SIDE WAYS TOTALLY WORE OUT SAYIN YE HAW WHAT A RIDE .....or sumthin like that.
Tommy I like you more every time you open your mouth and put sumthin on here. BTW a bunch of these A hole on here will jump up and down and say I told you so just as soon as you kill yourself, so don't. I will PM you list of who will say it first, I will factor in time difference and all.
Tommy Hagg "The Gnarls Canoe Movie"
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FullGnarlzOC
- C Maven
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:31 am
- Location: York, PA
That's the number #2 reason, that's the last thing I would ever want to happen... I'd hate to add to Jscotts credibility.
http://www.gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
tommy, I know you know all these posts are mostly meant to soapbox safety and genuinely serve to help you. I believe your reserved reply shows you get that. I've had these posts come my way as well years ago.
It's very difficult for them that don't boat with you to really understand that you have a very level headed approach to running class 4-5 drop, by drop. They think they know you, but they don't and they post to go on record to make sure you've been exposed to the brutal reality which was obvious to you before we became friends. true enough though, safety is a drum that is worth beating time and time again. There may be a young gun out there inspired by the video that this thread may serve, but I personally feel they are just preaching mostly to the choir. You have your perspective dialed in Tom. I see you very well and you listened very well when Art and I shared perspective with you and Cameron, as we nailed down unknown drop after unknown drop.
The PaCreekers that taught me to creek 10 years ago just couldn't fathom that I just "Figured IT Out" without them. no matter what rivers I got on. For Christ sakes I put off the upper Gauley and upper yough a year after friends were willing to take me.....I didn't even roll....yet those that knew me just couldn't get a dam clue that I was moving past them at a breakneck pace. It wasn't till I was regularly throwing down on the green narrows on maybe my 400th class 4-5 run and became a certified ACA swiftwater rescue instructor, that people would finally stop F'n pulling me off to the side at the campfires saying, "boy we're scared for you, you better be more careful". I just politely said thanks and moved on, never saying, "OH Really" or "stop that crap".
I feel your pain Tom even if you have the common sense to keep your mouth shut. Good on you. Out on the water the crew that has adopted you is super strong with common sense and reserve within the world of class 4-5+.
Craig, I generally like how you post....I think you keyed in a bit too much on the one sentence that Tom posted, that he doesn't like to scout. Knowing tom, what I think he meant was that he doesn't like to scout too long and he feels comfortable following my line. Tom likes to get it done.....look at it and go or portage if needed. He's not the guy that wants to scout for 45 minutes and let his paddle get cold. The one point you whipped him on was that he didn't scout pillow.......who scouts all the rapids....did you scout all the drops on lost paddle, initiation, or any other dangerous rapids. cut the kid a break there were 200 people standing on pillow rock itself, you made it sound like he was reckless with a possible strainer in there. I can guarantee if tom gets to the green narrows or the ravens fork he'll be scouting drop by drop....WHY.....because that's how he's being solidly mentored. Run what you can reasonably run, boating to the next horizon line or the next eddy and scout what you need to.
Tom's only loss on Saturday's pillow swim was a paddle and he lost a great opportunity to see how other remarkable OC-1 paddlers breakdown a significant rapid. guys like you and dooley have fine subtle pointers to be learned and he needs to try and soak that goodness in. By the time you posted he and I already had a 15 minute conversation on the matter. Believe me we're locking this stuff down with him.
I understand how tommy posting that he doesn't like to scout would set some folks off, but we have to pull back on some of these comments.....just let it go. He has a mother, he doesn't need motherhens.net and btw his mother really liked the video and you gotta realize boating class 5 is actually a step in a safer direction VS his other past sports where people were actively trying to beat him in the head.
I just want to let you guys know that tom's not the paddler Eddy McNarls. Eddy was a forum handle persona that likes to jest, likes to get under your skin now and then, and say generally provoking things if for no other reason than to have fun talking sh*t between runs. Lets just get it and move past it; Or don't appreciate it and don't tune in. Lets just accept Tom as a great young face in the hard boating community. This video Thread was dedicated to a guy starting to run harder class water. He did a great job. He learned a ton. He hiked back up and worked it out time and time again. He learned how to get his butt kicked and then style the next class 5 rapid. Lets get back to that thread.....just sit back and enjoy the video my brothers.
I'm sure the printed word above comes off pissed but I'm not, more just tired reading the current posts disecting a friend phrase by phrase. Support Tom like he'd support you.
It's very difficult for them that don't boat with you to really understand that you have a very level headed approach to running class 4-5 drop, by drop. They think they know you, but they don't and they post to go on record to make sure you've been exposed to the brutal reality which was obvious to you before we became friends. true enough though, safety is a drum that is worth beating time and time again. There may be a young gun out there inspired by the video that this thread may serve, but I personally feel they are just preaching mostly to the choir. You have your perspective dialed in Tom. I see you very well and you listened very well when Art and I shared perspective with you and Cameron, as we nailed down unknown drop after unknown drop.
The PaCreekers that taught me to creek 10 years ago just couldn't fathom that I just "Figured IT Out" without them. no matter what rivers I got on. For Christ sakes I put off the upper Gauley and upper yough a year after friends were willing to take me.....I didn't even roll....yet those that knew me just couldn't get a dam clue that I was moving past them at a breakneck pace. It wasn't till I was regularly throwing down on the green narrows on maybe my 400th class 4-5 run and became a certified ACA swiftwater rescue instructor, that people would finally stop F'n pulling me off to the side at the campfires saying, "boy we're scared for you, you better be more careful". I just politely said thanks and moved on, never saying, "OH Really" or "stop that crap".
I feel your pain Tom even if you have the common sense to keep your mouth shut. Good on you. Out on the water the crew that has adopted you is super strong with common sense and reserve within the world of class 4-5+.
Craig, I generally like how you post....I think you keyed in a bit too much on the one sentence that Tom posted, that he doesn't like to scout. Knowing tom, what I think he meant was that he doesn't like to scout too long and he feels comfortable following my line. Tom likes to get it done.....look at it and go or portage if needed. He's not the guy that wants to scout for 45 minutes and let his paddle get cold. The one point you whipped him on was that he didn't scout pillow.......who scouts all the rapids....did you scout all the drops on lost paddle, initiation, or any other dangerous rapids. cut the kid a break there were 200 people standing on pillow rock itself, you made it sound like he was reckless with a possible strainer in there. I can guarantee if tom gets to the green narrows or the ravens fork he'll be scouting drop by drop....WHY.....because that's how he's being solidly mentored. Run what you can reasonably run, boating to the next horizon line or the next eddy and scout what you need to.
Tom's only loss on Saturday's pillow swim was a paddle and he lost a great opportunity to see how other remarkable OC-1 paddlers breakdown a significant rapid. guys like you and dooley have fine subtle pointers to be learned and he needs to try and soak that goodness in. By the time you posted he and I already had a 15 minute conversation on the matter. Believe me we're locking this stuff down with him.
I understand how tommy posting that he doesn't like to scout would set some folks off, but we have to pull back on some of these comments.....just let it go. He has a mother, he doesn't need motherhens.net and btw his mother really liked the video and you gotta realize boating class 5 is actually a step in a safer direction VS his other past sports where people were actively trying to beat him in the head.
I just want to let you guys know that tom's not the paddler Eddy McNarls. Eddy was a forum handle persona that likes to jest, likes to get under your skin now and then, and say generally provoking things if for no other reason than to have fun talking sh*t between runs. Lets just get it and move past it; Or don't appreciate it and don't tune in. Lets just accept Tom as a great young face in the hard boating community. This video Thread was dedicated to a guy starting to run harder class water. He did a great job. He learned a ton. He hiked back up and worked it out time and time again. He learned how to get his butt kicked and then style the next class 5 rapid. Lets get back to that thread.....just sit back and enjoy the video my brothers.
I'm sure the printed word above comes off pissed but I'm not, more just tired reading the current posts disecting a friend phrase by phrase. Support Tom like he'd support you.
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Craig Smerda
- L'Edge Designer
- Posts: 2815
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:59 am
- Location: WaUSAu Wisconsin USA North America Earth, etc.
Guess you must have missed that post from a while back.Craig Smerda wrote:He's young, green, confident and to his credit... he seems quite driven.anonymous wrote:eddy, are you just being silly or are you really a complete whack-nut?
That being said though... actions speak louder than words... it'll be interesting to see where he goes in the future.
I've chatted with Tom plenty and I'll keep on doing it... but what I might say to him and tell him may come from a completely different vantage point than your own. Ultimately... he's going to decide what's best for him and not you or myself.
When opportunity knocks... you answer the door.
Esquif Canoes Paddler-Designer-Shape Shifter
craig, I hope you got the Private Mail I sent you with the Facebook link to "The Gnarls Canoe Movie" Maybe that will work for you. I could cut an mpeg 2 version too if you're still having issue seeing the video.
Craig, my post was more a culmination of many post on a number threads that seem to go after Tom. I did address a point or two with you but that's it. Most points didn't reflect on you. In general my opinon is that you're a great voice on the forum.
Again, If you still have issues seeing the video let me know, I will render a low rez copy.
Craig, my post was more a culmination of many post on a number threads that seem to go after Tom. I did address a point or two with you but that's it. Most points didn't reflect on you. In general my opinon is that you're a great voice on the forum.
Again, If you still have issues seeing the video let me know, I will render a low rez copy.
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Sir Adam
- CBoats.net Staff
- Posts: 4136
- Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 12:00 am
- Location: Adirondacks, NY State, USA
- Contact:
Sorry Creeker, you misunderstand this site.
There are always more folks that look at a forum than register (the "lurkers"). That's fine - I lurk on a number of boards myself and have never registered (if I don't have a comment or question I don't register).
There are also "a few" more folks than you see represented by the posts. There are a small number of folks currently dominating "conversation" - that changes by the years, and if you look back 5 years ago you'll see an (almost) completely different group of folks discussing things. Many of the other folks are still here, and post infrequently.
And, for the record, we have over 2300 registered members.
As I've tried to articulate in the past, we're a global forum where are are welcome. Given that we are based in the US most of our members are here, but I try to keep any one regional bias from taking over the forum (hence the new "trip" forum).
I haven't met Tom, and hope he is more reasonable than his posts. The replies in this case prove (to me anyway) it is better to just be yourself and not "pull peoples tails" to get a rise out of them for fun on a forum. As I've said to others in the past, it doesn't always translate well online.
I'm excited to see someone stepping it up a few notches and pumped up about paddling in a canoe. I think all the concerns stem from his past comments and how he paddled - following someone elses line is one thing, devising your own is another as you likely well know. We don't want to see someone young and excited exit the paddling community unexpectedly, and when he has so much talent and potential. Unfortunately he wouldn't be the first.
Thank YOU again for putting together the video - I know it is a tremendous amount of work, and it looks good (though I've had problems with it streaming, and in theory my DSL is a 3mb connection... must be too many folks playing it;) ). More great canoe footage is always welcome to help folks get excited.
There are always more folks that look at a forum than register (the "lurkers"). That's fine - I lurk on a number of boards myself and have never registered (if I don't have a comment or question I don't register).
There are also "a few" more folks than you see represented by the posts. There are a small number of folks currently dominating "conversation" - that changes by the years, and if you look back 5 years ago you'll see an (almost) completely different group of folks discussing things. Many of the other folks are still here, and post infrequently.
And, for the record, we have over 2300 registered members.
As I've tried to articulate in the past, we're a global forum where are are welcome. Given that we are based in the US most of our members are here, but I try to keep any one regional bias from taking over the forum (hence the new "trip" forum).
I haven't met Tom, and hope he is more reasonable than his posts. The replies in this case prove (to me anyway) it is better to just be yourself and not "pull peoples tails" to get a rise out of them for fun on a forum. As I've said to others in the past, it doesn't always translate well online.
I'm excited to see someone stepping it up a few notches and pumped up about paddling in a canoe. I think all the concerns stem from his past comments and how he paddled - following someone elses line is one thing, devising your own is another as you likely well know. We don't want to see someone young and excited exit the paddling community unexpectedly, and when he has so much talent and potential. Unfortunately he wouldn't be the first.
Thank YOU again for putting together the video - I know it is a tremendous amount of work, and it looks good (though I've had problems with it streaming, and in theory my DSL is a 3mb connection... must be too many folks playing it;) ). More great canoe footage is always welcome to help folks get excited.
Keep the C!
Adam
Adam
And some of us have watched it a few times, and with dynamic IP addresses....VAnate wrote:Creeker-People outside of cboats have seen the video for sure. Someone posted a link to it on the Coastals forum here in VA.
Edited to add - the views on this form go up while looking at the thread and the responses. There is a setting on your profile so you see all unread threads, so people sometimes pop on a subject just to get it marked as read. When new replies are posted, the unread flag goes back up
Last edited by jscottl67 on Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FullGnarlzOC
- C Maven
- Posts: 1329
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:31 am
- Location: York, PA
has anyone spent anytime breaking this down yet? I've been watching - trying to pick out stroke flaws, and lean flaws. The low flow stuff in the intro, can't really be looked at hard because its low flow and on rocks basically.
But there's some good shots of moose, beaver, and racquette. The shot at partical accelerater on rac is a good example of a landing flaw. I came down and distinctly remember leaning hard to my onside, to land with a low brace. This is something that I have done from the get go with drops...whether it be a 3ft drop or 10ft. Watching Dooley's videos, I notice that his landings are more just 'landings' with balance. Also noticed he is dryer doing so... So I'm guessing, this is what I should be working for? To land the canoe flat as possible(obviously depending on height - i got the plug down ) with as little brace needed as possible. Perhaps the best possible landing is flat, with a forward stroke as soon as you land, which can serve as a brace, on or offside.
Am I on the right track with that thinking? Anyone notice any other things to note?
But there's some good shots of moose, beaver, and racquette. The shot at partical accelerater on rac is a good example of a landing flaw. I came down and distinctly remember leaning hard to my onside, to land with a low brace. This is something that I have done from the get go with drops...whether it be a 3ft drop or 10ft. Watching Dooley's videos, I notice that his landings are more just 'landings' with balance. Also noticed he is dryer doing so... So I'm guessing, this is what I should be working for? To land the canoe flat as possible(obviously depending on height - i got the plug down
) with as little brace needed as possible. Perhaps the best possible landing is flat, with a forward stroke as soon as you land, which can serve as a brace, on or offside.Am I on the right track with that thinking? Anyone notice any other things to note?
http://www.gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
Silverbirch Canoes - North American Distributor
Email: tom@gnarlzoutdoors.com
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Larry Horne
- C Maven
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:39 am
- Location: Northern California
I didn't spend any time analizing your paddling (only thing I did wonder about was the high five in the slide...dude 
),
but yeah, That's my big issue i'm working on right now... landing on a brace has the effect of putting on the brakes and, well... allowing the hole to have it's way with me. Sometimes it's needed, but it feels lame when I just do it out of habit. I'm simply favoring the side I know I can brace on. I need to work it out.
I tend to do better on the taller drops for some reason.
), but yeah, That's my big issue i'm working on right now... landing on a brace has the effect of putting on the brakes and, well... allowing the hole to have it's way with me. Sometimes it's needed, but it feels lame when I just do it out of habit. I'm simply favoring the side I know I can brace on. I need to work it out.
I tend to do better on the taller drops for some reason.
Larry
Gnarlz,
Dooley's onside lean (on big drops) is more subtle than yours, but it's still there almost all the time. That's what keeps him upright so consistently. Impresses the heck out of me!
On big drops, it looks like you are leaning forward a lot. By doing that, you're losing stability and running wet. I think you may be reflexively setting up for a roll. A self-fulfilling prophecy... Keep your trunk more upright, but reach forward with your paddle for a pull/high brace.
Dooley's onside lean (on big drops) is more subtle than yours, but it's still there almost all the time. That's what keeps him upright so consistently. Impresses the heck out of me!
On big drops, it looks like you are leaning forward a lot. By doing that, you're losing stability and running wet. I think you may be reflexively setting up for a roll. A self-fulfilling prophecy... Keep your trunk more upright, but reach forward with your paddle for a pull/high brace.
Bob P