Wide Arching Offside Eddy Peel Out in Strong Current

[Kelly-Rand]

In my 15 years of WW paddling this is one area that I have had and still have great difficulty. To describe what I mean by a strong eddy line think of a narrow gorge with fast moving water and a narrow eddy. I can peel out of this type of eddy but the problem I have is when you have to get to the opposite side of the river quickly to avoid a nasty obstruction immediately down stream.
I know that part of the difficulty is due to the boats I use an Atom and Viper C1 which both tend to pearl if you hit the current at too steep an angle. I think this tends to be more of a problem when the current is to my offside when facing upstream. At least the memorable situations that I've experienced are associated with that scenario.
I'm not going to get a different boat so I need to learn how to overcome this short coming.
An example of this situation is on the West river in Vermont. If you put in below the dam there is a quarter mile of steep strong current with eddy service on river right. At the end of this section before the river bends left is the last eddy just above a pillow rock.
Well suggestions?

[ezwater]

I still have the same problem after 37 years of paddling, and, speaking as a psychologist, I think it's partly "psychological."

The boat doesn't know whether it is peeling out on one's paddle side or on the other side. I find that if I ferry out on my paddle side, I can cross even fairly strong current jets at any angle, even almost 90 degrees, and by keeping the upstream edge raised, fly across to the other side.

But if I try to ferry across toward my "off" side, I often choose a "chicken" angle, a small angle to the oncoming current, and then paddle with cross strokes if the boat starts to angle over. I have tried practicing ferrying at a more aggressive angle, trying to fly across like I can when ferrying toward my strong side, but I don't often succeed.

So I don't know the answer, but I will say that you need to have strong cross strokes and an effective cross sweep in your repertoire if you are going to ferry aggressively toward your "off" side.

Better advice is, no doubt, on the way.

[fez]

I use some kind of mixture of offside skulling and offside strokes near my hips to cross strong currents without having speed

[Kelly-Rand]

Yah Ez, the chicken angle is probably part of the problem. The other part is finding a river feature that mimicks the particulars so I can practice.

Fez, I've never been able to skull across a strong eddy line without losing a lot of ground. When you have to move 20' laterally to miss something 20' behind you, the skulling method is going to be too close to call.

Maybe I need to do some off side hole side surfing. I rarely do that solo.

[ezwater]

What is frustrating is that I can ferry toward my strong side by just leaving the eddy at a reasonable angle, and fly across many times without further strokes.

So there is no reason it should not work ferrying toward my off side, if I leave the eddy at the right speed and angle, and tip the boat properly. But I am seldom able to do it.

One note. The boat matters. My old Phoenix C-1 has a very tubular hull, and it was harder to ferry at steep angles in either direction without getting blown downstream. This is also true of my older OC-1, a rather tubular Mad River Synergy.

My Dagger Zealot is rather flat bottomed, and it is easier to tip it so that it ferries across at steeper angles without struggle. My later open boat, a fairly flat bottomed Millbrook, also ferries at steep angles more willingly. Surprisingly, my Mad River Guide Solo, with a rather flat bottom, also ferries wonderfully at steeper angles.

So you have to figure out what sort of boat you have and how to get what you want out of it, playing to its strengths and guarding its weaknesses.

Where do you go to practice ferrying in Boston? Was there recently and the drought was as bad there as it was in Atlanta.

[Larry Horne]

off side jet ferry?
they're tough, but that's one of the reasons we do this, right? not much is more fun than praticing jet ferries at the right place.
I think it's all about edge control and balance. no paddle.
Surfing will definately help.

[jatakasawa]

My struggles have lead me to the following. I'd suggest an aggressive lean to your offside. It's uncomfortable because you'll feel vulnerable to an offside flip. But once you get comfy with an aggressive lean while throwing offside strokes, you should zip across as you do on your on-side.

Get that hull resistance to a minimum! Sometimes you just have to eat it a few times to find the limits of a good 'heel.'

[Mike W.]

Hit it hard. Speed is your freind. The quicker you get the whole boat across the eddy-line & into the current, the less time the current has to spin you down-stream. Don't be afraid to tilt that Viper hard to your off-side either.

Another thing that can be tricky is where you have your weight. Lean foreward & weight the bow if you want to peel out & go down-stream. Lean back & weight the stern if you want to ferry.

My $0.02

[philcanoe]

due to technical difficulties with your explanation being worst than your ferrying... do you have a video clip (after all it was pretty generic - I can't do a ferry)

Sounds most likely you've confused a peel out with a ferry... one starts by leaning downstream, while the other doesn't... and very often starts with an upstream lean - in direct correlation to the power of the current.

[Shep]

I have pretty limited experience with C1, but I feel like your problem is an example of challenging offside ferries in general. If you think about it, when you are paddling onside, and making a ferry towards your offside, your paddle is on the upstream side of your boat. In this position, the only way to turn upstream is to rudder/J stroke, which hurts your momentum. When you have your paddle on the downstream side, you can take your forward stroke out wide to turn you upstream.

So... I guess my suggestion would be to try to make these moves with offside strokes. I know in shallow rivers, or with squirrely currents, it can be sketchy, but that would be my first guess as to how to control your ferry angle in the circumstance you describe.

HTH,
Shep

[jscottl67]

I've not paddled either of those boats (yet), but I understand that both have some edges to them. My thoughts would be to start further down in the eddy so you can have more upstream speed already established when you cross the eddy. If you are familiar with using the edges in surfing back and forth, use that experience to help with the ferry and with keeping your angle correct. If you use the edges, you can paddle on the stronger on side - just leave some space between your boat and your paddle blade and if need be, do sort of a high brace / draw like movement if you feel like you are going to roll downstream/offside.

If you are wanting to peel out at the end of the ferry, scope out a spot with faster water, stick your paddle hard into the downstream side out front and when you feel the catch, let it slip just a little, lean the boat downstream and pull hard to finish off the peel out.

At least that's how I do it...right or wrong. Again, haven't been in those particular boats, but would assue that would be the same.

[Kelly-Rand]

I re-titled my thread so I hope that doesn't through anyone for a loop. But, I agree with Phil that the question wasn't clear.

The follow up posts are helping me clarify what I have to do. So next spring when I can string a few days of paddling together I'll have some practice drills outlined.

[John Coraor]

Jim:

I have similar problems with off-side ferries, so I'm no expert, but here are some observations that I've made.

• The most critical time is the boat's transit across the eddy line. As has been mentioned previously, initial speed in exiting the eddy will reduce your transit time.
  
  Similarly, if you can pop the bow up with a sharp lean back just as you begin to exit, this can sometimes reduce the tendency for the bow to be whipped downstream. For this reason, I usually exit on my on-side, with a strong off-side lean as it is difficult to "unload" the bow while on a cross forward.
  
  I'm old school and thus often use a momentary on-side pry (more like a stationary rudder against the downrushing current) to hold the bow upstream until the boat is full engaged in the current, then switch to cross-forwards to drive the boat across.
  
  When I still wind up peeling downstream, I typically realize that it's because I subconsiously was too chicken to fully commit to the ferry.

Finally, I'll pass along some technique advice that my daughter and I received from Mark Poindexter at the Junior Olympics this summer at NOC. My daughter was practicing C-1W and having trouble with exactly the situation you've described. Mark suggested that, after powering to the top of the eddy, she should exit on a cross-stern draw held with the blade at a slightly open angle to the current. Much like my use of the on-side pry with an off-side lean in this same situation, he uses the cross-stern draw to hold the ferry angle during the transition. Once across the eddy line, more standard cross forwards can be used to continue to drive the boat across. This was a new technique for me and I haven't had much opportunity to practice it, but Mark demonstrated it several times for us and my daughter tried it out and found it helpful.

John

[pyc1]

If you think about it, when you are paddling onside, and making a ferry towards your offside, your paddle is on the upstream side of your boat. In this position, the only way to turn upstream is to rudder/J stroke, which hurts your momentum.

I avoid this during ferries for the reason you mention. This rudder stroke ends with your thumb on the T-grip pointed up. Instead, one should twist the paddle the other way, so that your thumb on the T-grip is pointed down toward the water. It is a bit weaker as a corrective action, but much more efficient in keeping forward momentum. Begin the twist early or late depending on the needs of the moment. (Maybe everyone already knows this, but I'm surprised how many c-boaters have never used this technique.)

[Shep]

Yah, I was using that as an example of why it's difficult to paddle on the upstream side effectively in fast current (I consider a rudder to be thumb-up, and a J to be thumb-down). Either way, the offside forward stroke will naturally point you more in the direction you want to be going, without correction strokes.

Shep