C-Forum

I have been looking for a Dagger Caption for a while, and found a potentially good deal on a used Mad River Caption. When researching the Caption I read all sorts of bad press on Mad River/Confluence that made me decide not to get a new Caption from them mostly focusing on their warranty issues (not an issue with a used boat), a flexing hull, and administrative issues. My question is did Mad River have any quality control issues after Confluence took over beyond the "new" royalex problems everyone is dealing with? Assuming the condition of the boat and the price is right is there a reason not to buy used Mad River boat?

Thanks,

Kyle

I have a recent Mad River Outrage. The hull is fine. However I had a bit of an issue when I removed the vinyl gunnels to install wood - whoever took it off the mold did a lousy cutting job and the top - it was pretty rough which made installing the wood more difficult. Good now that its done.

Not to hi jack the thread, but Mad river used to be very popular around our rivers, but very little is ever written about them on this site. I just wonder why? I liked the looks of them, but never been in one myself.

Personaly I think the Outrage is the greatest OC1 ever.
But I've seen enough issues with bad, bubbled and delaminating, as well as the industry wide soft royalex since Confluence took over that I am leary of buying a new Mad River hull. Thier IQ gunnels are pretty awful too.

As far as folks not talking about Mad River whitewater hulls? What's to say? The Outrage and Caption are older designs aimed at beginner to intermediate paddlers (not to say that there are not some advanced paddlers who like them).

Most of the attention goes to newer designs and hulls considered higher performance.

I bought a new outrage in late 2007. There were QC issues with the factory wood gunnels. One side was not cut or bent right and looked awful and crooked. I was shocked it made it out the factory that way. However, My boat shop and mad river took the boat back and sent me a new one without question.

I purchased a new Caption from Mad River 3 years ago with wood gunnels. Absolutely no problems and we've put a lot of miles on the boat. Royalex is holding up well. I'd buy another.

If you can find an older Dagger Caption made with thicker Royalex in good shape you will be better off in the long run, but those are getting hard to come by. You are absolutely correct not to buy a new one.

I have an MR Outrage in my fleet.Great and super fun boat, but the RX is definitely nowhere near what it used to be in the early to mid 90's.

why MR don't sell a new wild water canoe design? I like a lot my outrage, and the elegant design of MR, but I'd like to see some new design on his production

I have wanted to buy a new outrage with wood gunnels for some time now but I want it to have the enhanced bow flair I have seen on some of the new models. The problem is that some of the new ones I've seen do not have the bow flair. I know where one is for sale brand new that has the skinney pointed bow like my vinyl gunnel 1997 model. MR claims that they steam and pre bend all the wood gunnels for the outrage but if they do it must be an inexact science because there are major differences in the new ones. Anyone else noticed this?

they quit putting the extra bend in to save $. The new wood gunnelled ones I've seen didnot have it. It's still a good boat just not as dry.
Bill

Anyone have pics of the old design vs. the new design so we can compare?

dwd58 wrote:Anyone have pics of the old design vs. the new design so we can compare?

This is a 2008 Mad River Outrage, and I'm guessing it does not have the bow flair everyone is talking about.

I spent most of my time in a vinyl gunneled Outrage with narrow ends.
Then I briefly owned a wood gunneled Outrage with flaired ends.

Tom Foster said the flair makes it dryer so it must be true. But I can swamp anything. I wouldn't say there's a huge difference.

I prefer the narrow ends. Feels faster to me. But there's likely not a huge difference there either.

That Outrage definitely doesn't have the flair. I have contacted MR and they tell me they still put the flair in the pre bent steamed wood gunnels but it is very obvious to me that if they think they still are then someone there doesn't understand what I mean. Tom Foster also says the added flair increases the rocker. I hope someone does have a picture of the flaired one and will post it.