Shoulder pain and rolling a canoe.

Scal · Post by **Scal** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:48 pm

I have no idea how it happened, but I positioned myself to roll my canoe and probably pulled or ripped something in my shoulder. I can't lift my arm anymore. I didn't hit anything it was just the movement. I wasn't able to brace for the rest of the day but had no problem doing strokes.

Has anyone had this happen to them?

I'm scared this will weaken my shoulder and that will be the end of my ww canoeing years.

I guess I need some comforting!!

horizongfx · Post by **horizongfx** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:56 pm

I hurt mine almost every time I roll, the key to not hurting it is to develop a really strong hip Snap and use less force on the paddle.
Not rolling for a while will make your roll sloppy and you end up Muscling the boat up which is really Bad on your shoulders.

TNbound · Post by **TNbound** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:20 pm

The only time I have ever experience shoulder pain canoeing is after lots of rolling (right when I was learning). I did a little research/asked around and decided it was Shoulder Impingement or Tendonitis. A few days it got so bad I couldn't take a tshirt off without a few choice words. As horizongfx said, keeping you technique in check is key! If something hurts during your roll, you probably need to take a close look at your technique. Get a friend to evaluate your roll or post a vid up here. We'd all be happy to take a look, I'm sure!

Personally, my favorite defense against shouldering injuries while rolling is...

Staying upright!

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:21 pm

Yes -

I blew my out years ago, after learning to roll from Nolan Whitesell... who was fond of saying, just stick it out and low brace it up. Now I have a better roll using sound technique, but still get pain occasionally. Probably from falling back on bad habit's. The last time was in March at ALF, and required 3months of RR and some physical therapy.... I'd get it checked on, as it may be in a state that just minimal work (PT) will correct. 'Frozen Shoulder' is a condition that can result, even if just from a minor concern.

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:30 pm

I've definitely has some shoulder issues related to rolling that I m still working on. Tight outfitting is key to a good hip snap.... keep your head really low when you sweep into the boat.... returning to the basics and having discipline have helped me alot..
It shouldn't end your paddling days. Find a good sports doctor... a sports doctor will "get" that your not just going to put your arm in a sling and quit paddling for 6 months... ask the doc for a physio in your area that is good with shoulders... all physiotherapists aren't equal (there are always people that suck at their jobs, right)... I stay away from the ones who look like they re fresh out of school also... if you have a physiotherapist that isn't working for you, find another one... it's your time, your body and your $$$... don't give up, lots of people return to sport after some pretty horrific injuries

Todhunter · Post by **Todhunter** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:40 pm

Yep, my second to last pool session killed my shoulder - anything that required more than about 90 degrees of movement caused pretty strong pain (like you said, putting on a shirt). It took 2 weeks to recover, and now it doesn't hurt at all, just pops some when I move through my entire ROM.

I am trying to learn how to roll, and am sure I have bad technique (muscling). I need to tweak my outfitting and practice some more with folks that know how to do it!

Shep · Post by **Shep** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:00 pm

See a Doc or Physical Therapist, ASAP!

I have had similar shoulder injuries twice, both after bad wrecks skiing or snowboarding. The shoulder muscle runs through a slot in the bone that causes it to irritate itself with only the slightest swelling before hand. It may be the case that 10 days of meds or a few weeks of PT can nip this in the bud before it becomes a long term problem!

HTH,
Shep

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:02 pm

Hi Pascal,

Sorry to hear that. I also got impingment on my shoulder when learning to roll three years ago and still recovering. I didn't care enough about it right away and it got worse but now it is back on track.

Lots of good advices above, here's a couple more tips I have dealing with the issue:

- Tylenol definitely helps the acute phase (500mg/4 hours)
- Rest for a couple days then start rotator cuff exercises:
http://www.performancevideo.com/shoulde ... a_kayaking

Most importantly DONT do ecercises or anything that hurts. It won't make you stronger to suffer a bit beleive me.

tylenol and rest again.

I got into C1ing since two years and love how my new boat rolls so easily. But it flips me pretty easily too! lol guess there's always a tradeof...

Pierre LaPaddelle · Post by **Pierre LaPaddelle** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:32 pm

Encouraging to hear I'm not the only one who's tweaked a shoulder rolling.

I'm no expert, but from instructors / mentors, the word is clear -- if you hurt your shoulder, your technique needs work. A good roll is done wit da hips, not the arms. It's all in a good hip-snap.

When you have rolled 'successfully', you shouldn't feel any pressure from your shoulder at all.

Certainly it's common sense to keep the shoulders in good shape -- the exercises shown in posts above are really good. And, yes, it helps to make sure you've warmed up before you start popping rolls.

Otherwise -- technique, technique, technique.

See you back in the pool, folks!

Scal · Post by **Scal** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:44 pm

Thank you for all the answers.

After reading the threads I believe my technique is surely what got me hurting.

I went over two drops upside down before I had time to place myself to roll with the lack of air I rolled with poor technique and almost no hip snap.

I guess that's only time Shakira was right Hips Don't Lie

I'm glad to know that some folks had this problem and solved it.

I went to have it checked today and will have to go through PT.

Thanks for the exercises marclamenace.

I guess it's rest time for me...

It's raining outside...sigh!

Post by **sbroam** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:05 pm

Hip snap is key, of course, but keep that forehead on your paddle shaft. If I ever have shoulder discomfort, it is because I'm doing "push ups" off my low brace on a bad form roll. Driving with my head keeps my shoulders out of trouble.

Todhunter · Post by **Todhunter** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:31 pm

Lots of good info in here! sbroam - I constantly feel like I'm doing a push-up off my low brace when practicing a roll! For a while I was even trying to come up on a high brace (pull-up) without knowing what I was doing. It's really frustrating - I really want to get a roll down.

LarryFromPittsburgh · Post by **LarryFromPittsburgh** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:56 pm

Or, don't flip over.

ian123 · Post by **ian123** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:02 pm

Or, don't flip over.

Hard to learn that way.... sounds like a boring way to paddle...... Great, I m starting to sound like FullGnarlz

Einar · Post by **Einar** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:31 pm

Seems like everyone arrives at a roll in their own unique way, it a personal headspace thing although the rules are basic.
The observation on shoulder roll injury is I definitely don't let the C-C paddle wander behind 90+ degrees out from the hull. If I do then the whole thing becomes inefficient, somehow robbing my hip snap of range of movement but more importantly it places the shoulder in a "weakening" zone.
Having a life guard at the pool video my roll straight down from the high board revealed a lot of info.

Make sure you are upside down when he falls off.

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Shoulder pain and rolling a canoe.

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