C-Forum

At a river rescue course the other day, I had a problem with my rescue belt - after I released the quick-release in the front, the webbing did not pull through the back and d-ring cleanly, leaving me still attached to the rope by the other half of my belt!

On the back of the belt there is a slider/buckle that's designed to hold the d-ring in the centre of your back - a 2-slot metal plate with a soft plastic piece - but I think when the webbing is being pulled at an angle (like when you're on your back and somebody standing 30' away is pulling on it, like real life) the webbing can jam in the buckle! Works great when pulled back perfectly straight though though (like you'd try at a store).

Anyone know what rear slider plate I'm talking about and have any expereince/advice with it?

The obvious solution would be to ditch the buckle just have a loose d-ring on the belt's webbing, but I'm sure there's disadvantages to having the d-ring be able to travel around your back too.

What do other have at the back of their belts, just the d-ring?

Thanks for any advice. I don't want my rescue gear to kill me!

Pat.

Last year I ended up underwater for right at 2 minutes due to my pigtail not releasing and me ending up pinned in a strainer. The metal ring twisted and prevented the webbing from pulling through. (Stohlquist Xtract Rescue Vest) That taught me to be very particular about what I hook up to and I'm diligent on making sure everything is smooth and proper at the back of the vest before I put it on.

Smurf,

Does your vest/belt have tha same kind of slider-thing to hold the palce of the d-ring at the back, or just a d-ring?

I'm not sure exactly what twisted on you and why you didn't release. Sounds like maybe something was twisted when you put the vest on, and not as a result of the pulling?

Thanks if you can explain further, especially if it was a slider palte at the back.

P.

When looking at the back of the vest, there is a slider on the left and a D ring on the right between which the metal pigtail ring is held.

As for my incident, I hooked to a swimmers boat (turns out no airbags) in flood stage level water while in a tiny playboat K1. The other boat flipped in a big eddyline and swung about and knocked me over and parked on top of my boat. The flipping and twisting involved in all that, I believe, caused the metal end ring of the pigtail to twist and lock itself on that D ring. After getting knocked over tge whole lot of us went into a large submerged tree strainer with me upsidedown under two boats. Took me awhile to crawl out only to be pulled deeper into the strainer then into a larger one by the boat I couldn't disconnect from. I tied everything but cutting the pigtail and removing the vest. Ended up climbing up out of the tree whilst dragging the submerged boat with me. I wasn't dressed for the swim in cold spring runoff water and hypothermia started to set in pretty quick. Luckily, help from shore arrived about then.

Back to your question about if it might have been tangled when I put it on. Since I failed to specifically check that prior to putting it on that day, I can't say for sure. I was able to recreate the pigtail locking and failing to release later by twisting the metal ring so who knows. I learned a lot from that incident, like I'll never clip myself to anyones boat, dressing for the swim and checking equipment better.

http://www.boatwerks.net/boater-board/1/10521?p=52721

This was mentioned on a the boatwerks boater boat a few months ago. Super dodgy. I would definitely carry a river knife.

I have a Kokatat rescue vest. There is just a ring on the back, no slider.

FYI I never run the webbing through the metal buckle just the plastic quick release. I heard that was only for rescue situations not for towing. My QR strap was loose and behind me not hung up on the buckle.

My Extrasport PFD has the pig tail attached to a circular metal ring that the webbing passes thru directly. There’s also a small piece of Velcro sewn onto the ring that is held to the vest beneath the webbing. The Velcro centers the ring and should inhibit the ring from twisting while it’s on the vest. Otherwise the webbing around the vest only passes thru belt loops.

Interesting discussion on the other forum, but a different issue with the front release-buckle - to which I agree, thread it directly or using the metal plate once or twice depending on your weight and what you're doing: I thread mine directly through assuming I'm going to use for nothing more than a boat tow, or not at all. In the case of a live-bait rescue, as a heavy guy, I'd re-thread it to once or twice on the metal depending on what I was doing. But my webbing released fine from the front.

I'll check with North Water on that rear slider, but may just remove it. Having the ring directly on the loose webbing seems more foolproof than needing the webbing to first pass through that narrow metal slot, and is probably worth any other disadvantages.

A contributing factor may also have been that I was wearing my belt too low, I'm going to move it higher up on my chest, where it might be easier to keep the angle of pull more straight-on.

Pat.

I refuse to wear a cowtail of any description any more.
A few years ago while getting a beating in a hole my cowtail managed to get onto my paddle and then clip itself to my BA, quick release was useless as the krab itself was clipped to me.
Nasty things and I dont trust them

i don't wanna be the guy who says 'if you don't know how to use a rescue vest, don't wear one' but......

i have heard from other folks online that the stohlquist x-tract has some problems. that being said, rescue harness isn't for towing a boat. although people frequently choose to use it that way, it is for tethering a swimmer for strong swimmer rescue. that's it. period. as i'm sure you realized from what sounds like nearly drowing yourself, if you do choose to attach yourself to someone's boat, you darn well better make sure it is in a situation that you have under control.

i saw a guy hook onto a boat on the green recently, right above rapid transit, only to have to detach immediately afterwards when he realized he was going to get dragged backwards by the full boat over the rapid. if he just would have rammed the boat it would have been easy to get the runaway boat eddied out.

A safety rescue pfd does nothing but subect the wearer to a host of mild to lifethreatening situations. Mine saved my butt on sunday but if you are not familiar with rope systems it can take you out.

couple thoughts
1. I only would clip a boat on a class 2+ club trip with tons of swimmers or risking it in a remote gorge where a boat may mean someone's or the groups immediate safety. I.E you need the boat to paddle to safety....often times the case due to cold, remoteness and snow.

2. If anyone has any non-locking carabineers....get rid of them....leave them on a climbing harness. If you must use a tether, replace the carabiner with a locker, preferably an autolocker. Those big paddle non locking carabineers suck and will do stupid stuff.

3. If you must tow stuff take the time to go in some flat water. physically learn how to pull the release and unthread the belt with your hands! Do it again with your eyes closed. Do it again in a safer class 2. most times when you pull the release if you help it the release happens quicker and smoother. People floating at the same speed as their gear do not release from the attachment easy, quick or at all. Help it.

On sunday I was belayed down a 50-60 degree muddy slot maybe 40 ft where I waited to get all the boats lowered by rope on a portage. I got belayed down and amazingly I slipped and got caught (just a less than body weight hit)....so that belay actually paid off! Anchoring up for running safety like at speedtrap @gorilla or anchoring yourself up to a tree if you set safety for a spot with a big hit off a thrown bag. Hook yourself up and wade or lean into the deep fast current to retrieve a trapped paddle. I really like selfbelaying myself with a rescue pfd as I can get that access fast but I'll always take that full belay from someone else.

4. last tip.....be very careful when hooking up to the back ring. a regular carabiner can frighteningly ease miss clip into the belt guides sewn into the pfd...this clip happens when you are in the water and you get kicked around current or while walking around boulders/sieve etc.
Always have a locker carabineer on the release ring (ONLY!). when you clip into the release ring double check the thread of the tri glide plate right behind the release buckle.

5. any adjustable tethers with buckles need to be thrown the heck away IMHO.

Creeker (and others),

Not sure what you're talking about in #5?

Any thoughts on having a similar tri-glide-type plate at the back to keep the d-ring centred? That's where my released belt jammed.

What are the disadvantages of having the d-ring able to slide freely across your back, as several people seem to have it?

Pat.

p.s. Make sure to frequently undo your locking caribiners, and/or not to overtighten them. I once went to use my gear (again, fortunately for practice) and my screwgate wascompletely seized shut! It required tools to get it unlocked - no hope of use had I been in real situation, especially with cold hands.

Never did like the idea of the external cowtail, whether clipped around the side or over the shoulder. They pose a real hazard for entanglement/snag IMHO. I have the Astral 300 vest with web toe tucked into a side pocket. Nothing to snag onto while paddling or swimming. Originally, I had the large paddle carabiner, but have now replaced that with a locking carabiner.

My PFD doesn't have the rear slider and I'm not sure why it is needed. Web loops on either side of my PFD back keep the belt in place and allow the metal ring to slide back and forth on the belt for about 12". I've been on live bait a couple times and never thought having the pull to the side was an issue.

Pat, did your release belt come with the PFD or did you retrofit it? If retrofit, then maybe the rear slider is there because your PFD (or others) doesn't have the loops on side of the back to prevent the metal ring from rotating too far to the side.

Neil

yarnellboat,

On an Astral 300 the ring "usually" stays between the guide loops but not always. Having the steel ring in the center of the back makes things a little more predictable. It nearly eliminates a quick clip of the Ring *and* one of the 2 sewn in belt guide loops.....which would be a very dangerous situation. This has been done to a rescuer behind them without them knowing it.

while talking about a missclip think about how easy this would be if someone clipped to a rescue center ring with a regular non-locker. When the hit comes if you are facing upstream the beener would slam to a belt guide with force pulling it into the pfd squishing it. It's a particularly bad situation for a non-locker.

As far as #5 I saw a crazy tether once with a small aluminum buckle on it. It wasn't clear to me if it was made this way or adapted. I got lost in some the the descriptions and could only think about this while reading....probably my mistake. Its a very rare piece of equipment so lets not dwell on it...suffice it to say that if you are getting a tether the simpler the better. Personally I think a tether that extends beyond the sten of the boat I am paddling make the most sense. Otherwise the stern gets caught a bit during the tow process.

BTW I suggest a rescue pfd even if you don't know how to use one. But the upgraded PFD when you need to get a new PFD. It won't hurt you if you don't use the features for a year before you get instruction.