"So what happens if you can't get at your straps?"

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:28 am

I got asked this question as I entered the lead in to a very very large rapid, completely psyched out, i proceeded to grind down the left wall, flip, roll and boof sideways across the hole at the bottom, landing perfectly flat (yet totally sideways), on the seam line at the far side...

After "about a minute" (I'm not convinced) underwater fighting with my straps, and then being recirculated I was able to splutter to the questioner (who was on the bank ready to grab me from a dope on a rope) "Something like that!"

Anyway, my weekend aside, who has a One Pull strap release, and how well does it work? I'm considering using a variation on the system that Niall from Eire uses with snap shackles, though I'd like to know what else people have tried...

Definately dumping the current setup though, If I keep going like that It will kill me, and it's telling that I'm probably more confident [and thus better] in my open boat (One Pull straps with a massive handle) now than I am in my decked boat.

FullGnarlzOC · Post by **FullGnarlzOC** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:21 pm

I have Gumpy's converted burn. He uses a two strap system, with a single release... It works well.

My only problem with the system is, its hard to get in and out of easily. The straps take a bit it get tight, and then u still have to put the skirt on on top of that.... Not very condusive for steep creekin, where u have to hop in and out of ur boat within a moments notice.

IF I WERE GOING TO C1 Fer ReAL....I'd use a Mowhawk lap belt, and nothing else. It tightens real easily, and releases real easily. And U are uber tight with it, theres no wiggle room to mess up ur roll.

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:24 pm

I have been through many different C1 strap set-ups in my boats over the years. Every now and then I get lazy, don't make the quick release good enough and get somewhat trapped in my boat longer than I'd like to be. I've never had anything like a really close call, but I have been upside down fidgeting with my straps when i really wanted to be out of my boat.

2 things I ALWAYS do:

1) When paddling class IV/V with new people, or a new boat, or even just as a reminder to my buddies... I show them where and how my straps work. (if for some reason i end up knocking myself unconscious)
2) Carry a knife, always

Some things I would like to do and need to get around to doing:

1) Turn all my C1s, even my playboat into very effective and reliable quick release systems with airplane seatbelts
2) Run a cord with a grab look from my creekboat strap system to the front of the cockpit, so that if I have to swim from my creekboat, instead of pulling the skirt and the quick release, I can just pull the quick release, which will pull the skirt and the straps at the same time. Dont connect your release strap to your skirt, just run it outside your cockpit rim, then put you skirt on normally.
3) Try every new set-up or modification out with a practice swim, upside and in water, not on dry land. I don't test my set-ups often enough, usually only when required (I know this is bad).

I dont like suicide/lap belts because even in my C1s with tight straps, I can still wiggle wiggle and wiggle my way out of the boat with enough effort, although pulling the straps is easier. With the suicide belt, that belt MUST work correctly every time, absolutely every time.

I just think this post should be a reminder to me and everyone who paddles C1 that our boats can be death traps and we shouldn't get complacent.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:29 pm

jeez... I said it before and i'll keep on saying it.

you shouldn't have to pull anything to get out.
get those strap ancors and/or your seat back height adjusted correctly so you can wiggle out!
one pull systems are a great idea, but what if you can't do ONE pull? and what if the contraption fails??
Keep it simple.

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:00 pm

ooooh oooooh I agree with larry and i always aim to have my set-up so i do not need to pull my straps.... but i've also found that some of those set-ups sometimes still require you to pull/loosen the straps in some situations. It happened in my dagger atom, I got complacent, ooooh whatever i can just slip out of this bad boy until that one time that i went to slip out of it and couldn't because the water was shallow and I couldnt push the boat off of me.

I have also found that the more you freak out under water, the harder it is to just slip out of your straps. So to compliment Larry's comment... you should not HAVE To pull your quick release, but you really MUST have a quick release anyway.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:06 pm

markzak wrote:2) Run a cord with a grab look from my creekboat strap system to the front of the cockpit, so that if I have to swim from my creekboat, instead of pulling the skirt and the quick release, I can just pull the quick release, which will pull the skirt and the straps at the same time. Dont connect your release strap to your skirt, just run it outside your cockpit rim, then put you skirt on normally.

That was exactly the kind of advice I needed!

Gnarlz, I'm retiring from a 2 point (Skirt & Straps) release, because as it turns out, even the easiest release can be a lot of effort when you're in a pourover the size of a pickup truck. Plus I don't like lap belts, its too easy for your bum to come up off the seat.

Thinking about it seen as I use 'Suicide' (behind the hips to under the crotch) thigh straps I better include a second point of release in my new system, as I was on the verge of switching from trying to find the main release, to undoing the rachets on each leg.

jrsh92 · Post by **jrsh92** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:10 pm

I have a lapbelt+thigh strap system in my Atom... Both straps and lapbelt have easy to release cam buckles, but I can wiggle my way out of the boat even with the lapbelt still tight. I wouldn't want to use a system that I would need to release to get out of the boat... even being able to get out of my lapbelt without releasing it, I don't run the lapbelt if I think I might need to wet exit.
I definitely do not run the lapbelt anywhere there's any chance of getting stuck or pinning. If my boat was tilted forward or at an odd angle I would most likely need to pull the quick release to get out. Again I have a quick release for a reason but I try to avoid any situation where I would have to use it.
If I'm playboating in certain safe places I love the lapbelt-- in those cases I benefit from the extra solidness to the outfitting because I'm likely to roll, and when there's enough rock-free water downstream I could make many roll attempts if I had to. Plus, smooth/non-rocky water downstream of a wave means it's safe if wet exiting takes a second longer, and I'm unlikely to pin at a weird angle that would make getting out harder. It's in less predictable situations where I doubt the safety of the lap belt.

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:24 pm

@TheKrikkitWars... I had already been on planning on running the release strap outside the cockpit and will be working on that project in the next few weeks. I'll post pics and a review when its done. I've been meaning to take pics of all my outfitting projects anyway.

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:26 pm

For me the one-pull has never quite worked out since my skirt is really thight around the cockpit. the strap will release the QR but the skirt stays on as long as I don't pull the skirt loop.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:42 pm

OC1 with a foam bulkhead

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:46 pm

then i found 5 dollars

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:47 pm

Craig Smerda wrote:OC1 with a foam bulkhead

Even my Prelude has straps to go with the bulkhead... I can't stay in boats reliably without them.

I think I have a design worked out now, I'll be doing it in a couple of weeks time when I can afford it (and incidentally when I can afford to re-start a my weightlifting programme to help even out my shoulder and core muscles).

Yukon · Post by **Yukon** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:59 pm

In one word if you cant get to release your straps and that is the only way to get out, if you miss your roll you are
SOL

soon to be dead

why would anyone want such a system in their boat?

driftwood · Post by **driftwood** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:29 pm

I agree with the advice concerning having the one pull run out side of the skirt. Had this in my wheel boy and it worked well.

Additionally, I feel it is important that the one pull does not make a loop (basically a big suicide strap across the lap). Instead use one extension from each buckle that reaches out of the boat, or better yet have the female half of the buckles between your legs with the male ends coming in from the sides, then connecting the female buckles with a single grab loop or bar will not make an additional entrapment hazard.

That is pretty wordy, does that make sense?

J. Wood

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:52 pm

I also wouldn't want to promote a system that requires you to pull anything in order to get out.

That said, if I am going to swim, I do have my thigh straps on a quick release, just to make it easier, because by the time you decide to swim, you're probably already pretty bagged for any extra hang ups.

I use a plastic buckle from a quick-release belt of rescue PFD, and it's on a small loop of 2" webbing, to which I anchor my thigh straps. I run a piece of 1" webbing from the buckle out where it attaches to my grab loop with velcro.

It works good, but you do have to remember to give the skirt an extra long tug to get the buckle too.

A few pictures among these:

http://picasaweb.google.com/vanc.yarnel ... Outfitting#

Pat.