C-Squirt stuff - New vid and I'm DONE

Decked Canoes, Open Canoes, as long as they're canoes!

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PAC
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Post by PAC »

I know some folks swear by them but I still don't trust lap belts... particularly in a Cquirt where you might have to bail out at depth and with pressure (of both the H2O and O2 kind :o ).

I'm sure if you have a cool head you can get out of anything but being deep in cold darkness, up against something solid with current pressure .... well that sort of freaks me out when it comes to being able to get to that up (out) button (...Okay I'm a White Water Weenie!).

I like a suicide block - that is not too tightly fitted - that comes out with / when the skirt is pulled.

Anyway if you use a lap belt make sure its of high quality, is in good working order, and test it frequently to make sure... just my $.01!

I do agree that the...
shape of the back of your saddle and the height of the rear deck seems to have a greater effect on the time to escape than the rest of the outfitting put together
...particularly in a Cquirt where there isn't much room for things like feet (the bigger the worse) when you have a smaller cockpit, tight skrit / rim, etc.

Jim Snyders Squirt Boating and Beyond is the bomb and is a good read for anyone who boats in IMHO. Places a lot of hydrodynamic affects in an easy to understand read.... also gives ya a little understanding as to "zombie talk"! LOL
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Post by Larry Horne »

just remember, josh is the one who started this http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7963331 thread just a short while ago :wink:
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Post by PAC »

Thanks Larry ... missed that! :lol:
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Post by tennOC »

Question about your lap belt setups. When you "add" a lap belt do you replace the thigh straps and make it a continuous loop or is it just a lap belt added to the existing thigh straps? I always used the continuous loop and popped the buckle ( hassle I know but so is trying to get out of a squirt C-1 with a blown skirt from where your butt slid back and popped it). I've been pinned badly a couple of times and was glad for the ease of escape once I popped the buckle. Another safety feature is to leave the saddle unattached to the stern wall so it can release and pop out without pinching or pinning your ankles. There are several easy ways to rig that. I used to shoot videos on the Gauley out of my squirt and use the pelican box for the stern support. And my final morsel for those of you still tuned in, I cured my "double knees" with some Therma-rest Demonstration pads I talked a sales rep out of. Man I could grind for hours and not get the gravel in my knees. Getting a little tender- just add a little more air.
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Post by Smurfwarrior »

Nice tips Tenn, the boat in your profile pic looks awesome.

After a good couple days paddling mine, I really think I want it dinkier and sinkier. The K squirt I used to paddle was a Hellbender and it was super easy to sink the ends and toss around, I miss that. Looking at reducing the length to around 9' but keeping a wider,more rounded, profile at the tips. I've been lurking on Sweet Composites site looking for material and its got me eager to experiment. Here are some questions I've got, for someone like Adam. :)

1. Reprofiling ends- Due to the increased width at the area I plan on making the 'new tip', will I need to cut the seam further back and trim top half to taper to the bottom half? This seems logical but want to make sure. Opinions on end profiles.. pointy like original or wider to accept more influence from the current further from the center?

2. End pours- what type and how much epoxy do you use?

3. Seam taping- the current width of the seam tape is 3" and its not in the best of shape around the entire boat. Whats the best type of tape to use and what epoxy are you using to wet it out? How much resin would be required to tape the whole boat vs just the ends?

4. For the chopping/floating process... do you guys just duck tape it together to test it?

5. Is there a way to raise the knee area of the cockpit (just a smidge) without anything drastic? Would attempting to expand the area by shoving foam in there be a bad idea, or even work? A half inch increase would be perfect and I just need it right at the lip.

I've got a skirtworks custom skirt on the way, I was impressed with how nice they were to deal with.
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Post by Sir Adam »

Smurfwarrior wrote:Nice tips Tenn, the boat in your profile pic looks awesome.

After a good couple days paddling mine, I really think I want it dinkier and sinkier. The K squirt I used to paddle was a Hellbender and it was super easy to sink the ends and toss around, I miss that. Looking at reducing the length to around 9' but keeping a wider,more rounded, profile at the tips. I've been lurking on Sweet Composites site looking for material and its got me eager to experiment. Here are some questions I've got, for someone like Adam. :)
Smurfwarrior wrote: 1. Reprofiling ends- Due to the increased width at the area I plan on making the 'new tip', will I need to cut the seam further back and trim top half to taper to the bottom half? This seems logical but want to make sure. Opinions on end profiles.. pointy like original or wider to accept more influence from the current further from the center?
The seams should be even. This will be easier, or harder, than you think, depending on whether you think it will be hard, or easy :lol:

If you are shortening it that much (and I would aim for just under 10' BTW) you are going to very likely have a round profile (shred cut). I like pointy on front and round on back personally for a cruiser, but for what you are doing they should match. I would leave the center seamed and cut and trim the bow and stern - it will be easier to work this way as you won't have to worry about things shifting around as much, and it should help you keep that central volume and room for your knees (OR redo that cockpit too and cut the whole thing down).
Smurfwarrior wrote: 2. End pours- what type and how much epoxy do you use?
I use vinylester, as it matches my builds and is cheaper, and significantly lighter, than epoxy. I mix in some aerosil or cabosil (glass microspheres) to make it lighter too. I use as little as possible to make sure my seam tape ends are in the end pour - that said, the Maven is ridiculous to try and seam, so there is a quart in each end :o . Thankfully the Mentor is much better!
Smurfwarrior wrote: 3. Seam taping- the current width of the seam tape is 3" and its not in the best of shape around the entire boat. Whats the best type of tape to use and what epoxy are you using to wet it out? How much resin would be required to tape the whole boat vs just the ends?
My personal preference is the bias-ply tape - you can widen it where need be and it is MUCH easier to work on sharp seams. 1 1/2 will do nicely I suspect. It is more expensive. I'd use glass and not kevlar for various reasons, most of them having to do with repair or cutting down further (and cosmetic for the exterior). I would use epoxy... more on that at the end of this post.
Smurfwarrior wrote: 4. For the chopping/floating process... do you guys just duck tape it together to test it?
Use vinyl tape, not duct tape. It will stick just as well short term, and not leave that aweful residue that is almost impossible to get off (that you NEED to get off before glassing...). I tape right along the seam with one piece, then perpendicular (top of bow to near bottom of hull). You'd be surprised how well this holds the boat together! When you get it right do your inside seam, THEN take the tape off and do the outside.
Smurfwarrior wrote: 5. Is there a way to raise the knee area of the cockpit (just a smidge) without anything drastic? Would attempting to expand the area by shoving foam in there be a bad idea, or even work? A half inch increase would be perfect and I just need it right at the lip.
Cut the boat, shove the foam in, and reseam. You might even be able to put a bigger piece of foam in NOW. You'd be surprised how "flexible" glass can be.... but realize you are stressing it a bit (hence cutting the seams first, even if they aren't directly to the sides of where you are placing the foam it will loosen the boat up.)
Smurfwarrior wrote: I've got a skirtworks custom skirt on the way, I was impressed with how nice they were to deal with.


They are great folks!!


Other hints:
Just order a gallon kit of West Systems epoxy with the pump and all. I can't imagine not having it at my fingertips all the time (not just for boat repairs).

epoxy will be a bit more durable for the seams. If you redo the cockpit rim use vinylester (or whatever was used to build the boat - they should match (though epoxy should bind to either just fine). If there is a build plate it may say what resin was used.

Hopefully others will chime in - though I've done all of the above a few times, there are some folks here who have been at it much longer than I, and have much vaster stores of knowledge on the subject. I'm sure I'll learn a few new things too 8)
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Post by tennOC »

Once you get the cut you like and move to inside seams and end pours, stack all your seamtape neatly together like you want it to go into the boat. Then use a regular ole' office stapler to staple them all together, then wet them all out at once on a flat surface. A couple of small finish nails sticking out of the end of a thin strip of wood can then poke through the end and be used like a pool cue to coax it into the inside of the boat with minimal mess. I like to hang the boat on edge from a couple of eyebolts in the ceiling with rope loops to hold it at the proper heighth. Another small strip of wood with a little minicell squeegee glued to the edge of the last few inches will work the seam tape into place pretty good.

For bomber end pours use a few pumps of epoxy(not as much as you think), some milled fibers, cabosil and the secret ingredient- fuzzed up kevlar threads. It turns into more of a glob than a pour but it can be plopped right into the ends and massaged a little and it is bombproof. Move quickly after you begin to mix because it gets hot in a hurry. Just be sure you don't plan on changing your mind on the cut because it's ridiculously hard to cut back through this end plug. But you'll save a lot of weight and not have to worry about probing the bottom when you do stern screwups.
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Post by Smurfwarrior »

I spent a couple hours in the pool tonight and filled the squirt up with a bunch of water... tons of fun! So squirty and sinky! Ordering up the stuff and going to chop as soon as it get here. Many thanks for the tips! Its really going to help.
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Post by Smurfwarrior »

Here's a vid from the float test after chopping it down to 9'9" today. I like it a lot more.. Will be reducing the volume a little bit more in the front I think.

http://www.vimeo.com/17745038
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Post by Sir Adam »

Take more out of both ends regardless.

If you want a destination sink and squirt machine you have a bit more cutting to do....

Looking good so far though!!
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Post by Smurfwarrior »

Ok cool, thanks for the input! I'll thin er out a bit and try again.
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looking good

Post by Aric »

a chop like that or just a little lower, should be good to go at Rincon. with a crossbow charc I'll bet you could sink it.
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Post by Smurfwarrior »

Awesome! :)
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I dont know

Post by Longboatin »

Smurphy, just couldnt resist the experimentation could ya? I dont know, but seem to me cuttin the ends off didnt do much, beyond shortin the boat.
My thoughts on the acro would be to crush the volume out of the center areas of the boat, similar to the old jet and projet designs. Lots a room to do that in a c1, unfortunately u already cut off areas that didnt have much volume anyway, bummer :cry:.
Oh well, you too can now flail around in an ill handling pumpkin seed like so many others. :roll:
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Post by Smurfwarrior »

You're just pissed that its not approaching "longboatin" standards in length any more huh. :) Well, what you didn't notice was that it spins quicker during bow/stern squirts, the ends are less 'trippy' and I can submerge the bow simply by plowing. It paddles better IMHO, and thats what counts. :)

Tip profile.... need input on that. RodeoClown has weighed in and Adam says they should match bow to stern... so, are mine too wide? Suggestions with actual measurements 6", 1', 2' from tip would help greatly.
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