C-Forum

Has anyone ever tried a Jackson Rocker as a C1 creeker conversion. My concern is that it has no rails.

Any info is greatly appreciated.

Mike,

It's not a creekboat, but if you're interested in trying my WS Score C-1, let me know.

Pat.

I have not tried the Rocker but I have tried both sizes of the Villain. If you paddle oc-1 and want to convert to decked c-1 I think that one of the best designs for downriver/creeker is the large Villain ( 92 gal. ). It is an easy transition and you won't have to look for an eddy to bail.

I am currently testing the small Villain ( 79 gal. ). I had to surf three large holes on a familiar rapid, and the boat was very stable in the holes, so the jury is still out. I most often paddle Pyranha c-1's and the JK designs are much different so it very well could have been paddler error to be in the holes in the first place.

If you are interested in a more in depth review let me know.

how does the Villain compare to the Remix and the Karnali ?

I'd love to hear more thoughts on the Villain, Bernie. Does the high deck on the bow interfere with cross-strokes?

You will regret a Rocker C1, I'd put money on that.

As for the Villain I'm interested, as I found it not dissimilar to my Jefe, only the things that niggled me in the Jefe, were more accentuated to the point that it was irritating; and it didn't boof as easily.

TheKrikkitWars wrote: As for the Villain I'm interested, as I found it not dissimilar to my Jefe, only the things that niggled me in the Jefe, were more accentuated to the point that it was irritating; and it didn't boof as easily.

Huh? Everything you don't like about Jefe you liked less about the Villian? Is that what that means?

Who was it that said we are two peoples separated by a common tongue?

oopsiflipped wrote:

TheKrikkitWars wrote: As for the Villain I'm interested, as I found it not dissimilar to my Jefe, only the things that niggled me in the Jefe, were more accentuated to the point that it was irritating; and it didn't boof as easily.

Huh? Everything you don't like about Jefe you liked less about the Villian? Is that what that means?

I suppose, though Niggle means that it's something I can get over... Irritation means it's severe enough to piss me off.

oopsiflipped wrote:I'd love to hear more thoughts on the Villain, Bernie. Does the high deck on the bow interfere with cross-strokes?

I don't think that deck would interfere with strokes much, but it sure would mess with the roll.
that thing is huge!
I think if you gonna paddle a boat that gigantic, might as well go OC and be a cool-guy.
around here the general consensus has been jackson creekers suck. but a lot of people are giving the villain a shot..it doesn't interest me at all though.

Would the Villian be better than the Remix or the Karnali? Or not as good as those boats. Is the Villain a flat-bottomed planing hull, or rounded displacement hull?

Larry Horne wrote:

oopsiflipped wrote:I'd love to hear more thoughts on the Villain, Bernie. Does the high deck on the bow interfere with cross-strokes?

I don't think that deck would interfere with strokes much, but it sure would mess with the roll.
that thing is huge!
I think if you gonna paddle a boat that gigantic, might as well go OC and be a cool-guy.
around here the general consensus has been jackson creekers suck. but a lot of people are giving the villain a shot..it doesn't interest me at all though.

Here is an unbiased opinion about the Jackson Rocker... http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6156077/

Hey, awhile back I contacted Jackson directly w/ plan to convert a Rocker and THEY strongly advised against it. I don't remember the reason, but the project ended there. HH

Thanks TGG, That video clip is priceless!!!
Your right my Boof sucks.
And now I see why no-one wants to be seen with me.

Back to the Villain.
I am 175# without gear.

I have paddled the Villain S on the Upper G 11 times @ 1200 cfs - 2300 cfs over the last few weeks. This boat is very fast for its' length, boofs without effort, and is very forgiving in turbulent water. To me it feels small for a 79 gallon boat.

For me the S was not a confidence builder because I felt that I was at the top end of the paddler weight range and the chines were engaged too deep in the water. On a familiar river I had no problems but I did have to roll 3 times, which I might add was very easy. I think the boat would be good for someone @ 165# or less. I plan to paddle it on lower volume runs to see if it performs any better.
I still have the boat if someone would like to paddle it.

Paddled the Large Villain on the Russell Fork one weekend. This boat was a huge confidence builder but also a huge boat
( 92 gal.). It did everything well at my weight. Except, you guessed it Larry, rolling. The cockpit is the largest on the market and I was way under sized without adequate hippads. The boat was very easy to control and gave me the confidence to try anything I wanted to do and it did very well. I did have to roll once and I knew that I did not want to have to do that again. The cockpit was 2.5" wider on both sides of my hips. Good hip pads would remedy that.

The Villain is a displacement hull and at my size I prefer the the Karnali, Everest, and Burn M

In retrospect I believe that I was left out on the sizing of this design but it will do very well for those in the right weight range.
The hull is very similar to an open boat and a good transition from open to decked.