patch project

ELGOTTO · Post by **ELGOTTO** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:35 pm

I just picked up a 1993 model Dagger Genesis that is in very good shape except for a 3 inch dia. hole in the bottom middle of the boat. It is right about where thigh strap rings or the front of a pedestal would attach. What is the fastest and easiest way to fix it? The boat will be used later to paddle mostly class 2 or 3 with maybe an Ocoee trip thrown in occasionally. I can post a picture later if need be but it is just as I said. The royalex all around the hole is solid. Thanks for the help. By the way if there is a section under the repair catagory for repairing royalex, I couldn't find it.

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:44 am

I remember someone posting several months ago about a repair they were doing and ultimately completed that involved putting an ABS sheet on the bottom of a hull. Sorry I don't remember more than that. It was quite an impressive repair. Perhaps they'll see this post of yours and direct you to their post. I remember there were a number of pictures detailing the process.

iRolled · Post by **iRolled** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:32 pm

I remember reading something about a slurry made up of leggo's and acetone. or ABS and acetone. Both worked.

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:14 pm

yeah, there's no quick and easy fix if you want your boat to last, especially on class III. You have to fill the hole first...you have many options, like the lego's and acetone, or some gorilla glue. I don't really recommend filling it with straight epoxy resin, if you do go this route, use alot of silica filler in your resin and use a quick setting hardener. Use wax paper or peel ply on one side of the boat, fill the hole with whatever first. Once the hole is filled, you should patch the outside and inside of the boat with fiberglass or whatever glass/kevlar/dynel cloth you have around. Use some epoxy resin for the job, West System 105, GFlex, or buy one of those Royalex Canoe Patch Kits, which will give you some resin and some glass and some instructions.

Try a google search for Royalex hole repair and you should find some additional info and pics.

When filling the hole, the most important thing is not to put something in the hole that is warm or will gets warmer, because it will melt away additional foam from the ABS layer and it will be a useless fill job... that's probably why I'd recommend Gorilla Glue for the job, its expands a little, doesnt heat up and let it dry, sand it down, then do your glassing on the inside and outside.

ELGOTTO · Post by **ELGOTTO** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:22 pm

Good suggestions. I was wondering if I could fill the hole first with some sort of material other than a piece of royalex. I will try the gorilla glue. In case I didn't mention it earlier I believe a foam saddle will be right over the hole once it's glued in. Do you think that will give it a little more strength or cause it to be weaker?

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:31 pm

It shouldn't really matter about the saddle. It might give some additional strength to the patch to prevent flexing, which is the biggest problem with patches ripping off or getting mangled up (repeat flexing). So its probably a good thing that its a saddle. A D-ring attachment on a patch would be sketchy.

Since your saddle is going over the patch, when you lay up the glass on the inside, start with a small piece of glass to cover the hole, then lay progressively larger pieces of glass. You probably want to have the saddle distribute weight over a larger surface as not to put a lot of stress on the patch. I would do at least two layers of glass, maybe 3, on the inside, it can't hurt. Lay up your second layer while your first layer is still wet and tacky, but not dry and tacky. I would make your last layer of glass larger than the saddle or something like that depending on placement.

ELGOTTO · Post by **ELGOTTO** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:39 pm

By the way are we talking Gorilla wood glue or Gorilla epoxy?

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:50 pm

the standard Gorilla Glue http://www.gorillatough.com/glues/goril ... index.aspx

Post by **sbroam** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:50 pm

Marine plywood, liquid nails, and screws. Lots of screws.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:51 am

Wallbridge Boatbuilders Manual gospel says put the largest patch on first, then concentrically down to the smallest. The reason for this has to do with the largest patch being able to cover and control the most stress lines.

If you have the patience to wait for it, get S-glass from sweetcomposites.com. It is stronger and harder than the common E-glass. West 105/205 will wet S-glass more easily than will G-flex. For the inside, Kevlar or polyester would be better than glass, though glass is OK.

The bond of the vinyl skin on Royalex is not that strong, so if you have the patience, it would be better to remove the vinyl from most of the patched area. The easiest way to do this is not by sanding, but by using a sharp chisel held at a low angle to skim the vinyl off the ABS. The vinyl will come loose right at the bond line.

While the pedestal above the repair will "back up" the repair, when you blunder over rocks, the hull can't "give" under the pedestal, so that there will be hard stress on the patch. That's why S-glass outside and Kevlar inside might be worth the effort. I have an S-glass patch under the pedestal on my Synergy, and it is standing up to scraping, scratching, and poking very well.

Mr.DeadLegs · Post by **Mr.DeadLegs** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:56 pm

IT IS A ZOMBIE BOAT, SCRAP IT !!!!!!!!

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:06 pm

Why, Mr. Deadlegs, a Genesis need not lead to a wet exodus.

markzak · Post by **markzak** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:30 pm

thanks for the beta on the larger patch first, then smaller and smaller...

ELGOTTO · Post by **ELGOTTO** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:24 pm

Seems like a good many like to dog the Genesis. The guy I got it from was gonna toss it. Except for the hole it is in great shape. Would you really rather scrap it than try to fix it for a back up boat or maybe a loaner to a newbie? That is my plan.

Mr.DeadLegs · Post by **Mr.DeadLegs** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:34 pm

yep, it is a dinasaur. Cut it up, make it into a planter. What other sport would you even consider using a 13 year old wear item.