C-Forum

I initially posted this over on BT... but it kind've applies to our collective group as well.

http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052250814/

Why aren't there any "good" paddling videos that feature class II-III-IV?

If the "industry" wants to grow and attract new paddlers... why hasn't someone produced a video directed at getting "new blood" interested in paddling?

Let's be realistic here... videos that feature boaters hucking themselves off 70+ footers, getting beaten down at Gorilla or doing McPhonixNasties on a 26 foot tall wave are cool and all... but if that's all the general public keeps seeing... who does it benefit long-term?

Why can't the major players in this sport (those that will ultimately profit the most) get together and come up with something that appeals to the "less adventurous" people in the world that don't care about the 'gnar' but they might be interested in getting out on the river.

Just because a class II-III-IV river doesn't seem "cool" to most of us... that doesn't necessarily mean it still isn't a fun and beautiful way to spend your day. Non-paddlers I know ask me often what it is that I like so much about boating... my typical reply is "I get to go places and see things that the vast majority of the population never will... regardless of the amount of fun or danger involved."

Don't mind me... I'm at work and pretty dam'n bored.


Let's face it... the majority of people that paddle whitewater just aren't going to run huge stuff or regularly surf on giant waves. Look at the surfing world... millions upon millions of surfers... but how many will ever ride a wave at Mavericks or Jaws... 1% if that?

"This is Canoeing" & "The Canoe Movie" seem like a good start for us... but I also think it's time for someone to produce a newer and better instructional movie as well as a full feature film about the history of whitewater canoeing. No offense Kent... but Solo Playboating is getting a bit dated.



Thoughts?

Craig,

I guess I disagree with a lot people on this subject but I don't think many people want to watch a class II-III video.

Paddling class III is amazing. Watching it on video is amazingly boring!

I think photos of flatwater, class II etc... are a different story. There are some incredibly beautiful still photos of class II that could get people excited about paddling but I don't think anyone really wants to watch class II-III videos. Class III-IV is a different story and there are about a million class III-IV videos out there on youtube and Vimeo.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy paddling class II (I have a great time taking beginners down the Hiawassee; i do that several times a year) but not many people want to watch a video of that.

You are right!! Even if I thought that "this is canoing", is great to show all level of playing from big stuff to small, from flat to steep, and from short to long! I didn't see the " canoe movie" yet. You should read Yukon last thread, it is realy interesting. I think we have to make it a life style and there is more people that paddle more classII_III rivers than there is paddling class IV V. I think for me anyway the thing is to try more complicate move on the same water than falling off a water fall or a creek so steep that there is almost no water to float my boat... On the other hand, I never paddle anything bigger than maybe a classIV so I might not be the best to say!

It would be nice to have videos that show a more attainable (pun intended, as bad as it is) side of paddling to people looking to get into it, and I think youtube and Vimeo largely fulfill that role. I know I for one would be more likely to watch videos of something I am new to for free rather than invest in them on DVD.

However, why not take new boaters and those who are curious out for a trip on some class II-III-IV? The first river I ever paddled, my friend and I were lucky enough to fall in with a good group of older guys who showed us the ropes. The river was a local class II-III-IV stretch, and we ran the IIs and IIIs and walked the IV. What really counted though was that we had fun, met some good guys, and got to watch them style a rapid out of our skill level.

I guess what I'm trying to say is as good as boating videos may be, I think introducing people to boating on the river is more effective.

PS- I easily could have given up on paddling to spend more time focusing on skiing, wakeboarding etc... back when I was a teenager and getting started if I hadn't seen the video Southern Fried Creeking, where Psycho styled Overflow Creek (class V) in a 14' canoe. Very sick. I knew whitewater canoeing was the sport for me when I watched that video (I'd been on maybe 10 trips and was liking it but that was when I got hooked)

That's just my personal story. I had already seen the video solo playboating (which is mainly class II-III) but watching southern fried creeking was what got me fired up about the sport. Before watching that video I didn't even know that it was possible to run class V rapids or waterfalls in a canoe because my dad and I were self taught and the only open boaters I'd ever seen were other class II paddlers on the Hiawassee and Nantahala

Hook me up with that croc-kayak and I will put a class III vid in that LVM like thizzat...

I watch college/pro sports, but don't play at that level. I watch Top Gear, but will never drive like the Stig. I watch class V paddling videos, but paddle II-III-IV. [ Unless I'm in the video ]

A major problem I see in producing these videos is that river running class 2-3-4 with friends is too dang fun very few people in the group will really care about holding a camera. Do you really feel like doin anything else than paddling right now?

Kidding apart, I see quite a bit of good video of wilderness canoe trips on single days trips as well... You just have to search through the whole fullgnarlz & yak pile o stuff and you find one every now and then.

But again, although they can be great, they are not readily intended at making people willing to introduce themself to the sport, rather just documenting a given event/trip.

My club did something two years ago to explain people what ww canoeing is, how is it when you join the club and how accessible it can be to every kind of people, young or old dudes or gals. Sorry it's in french though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71MEfrK6kvA

Still when you tell people you're into whitewater stuff, every seems to think 1- you're crazy kinda masochist 2- you're a yaker. Any way to change that general conception would certainly be a relief

I'm with Dooley on this one. Class III videos are boring....EVEN Class IV... as most paddlers aren't EXPLOSIVE enough to make look 'awesome'.

It wasn't until I saw Dooley's YouTube Video until I realized what was possible in WW canoeing. Heck, I didn't even know you could roll a canoe until I saw that video two years ago.

Not to say that Class III vidoes can't be exciting...but that is all in the editing, music, ect...

Class V gets ppl amped enough to take some action... and find out more about the sport ect...

FullGnarlzOC wrote:Class V gets ppl amped enough to take some action... and find out more about the sport ect...

It gets certain kinds of people amped. And if certain people think whitewater paddling is a crazy adrenaline sport, I'm fine with that.

But, there is a place for videos that show the more "attainable" side of the sport, too - I need something I can show my Mom so she doesn't worry about me

Depends on who you are trying to reach, I guess. If you're preaching some evangelical canoeing to kayakers, than the hardcore "Look what I can do!" Class V paddle porn is going to be effective.

But for non-boaters, it's more difficult. Most of us have been boating whitewater so long, we take for granted what seems easy to us. But think about it. Show a non-boater Ohiopyle Falls and then show them a Class V like Insignificant on the Gauley. First of all, some will think you are crazy to run either. But ask them which looks more dangerous. They'll probably pick the falls.

If you are trying to build from the ground up, if you are trying to build canoeing from a pool of people that are not already whitewater boaters, you are going to need to appeal to more than just adrenaline pumping, gnarly dare devils. You are going to need to showcase all the other great aspects about canoeing we sometimes forget.

We are incredibly lucky as a sport that the vast majority of our rivers go through beautiful country, some of it pristine, untouched wilderness. We are lucky that we paddle within a community of friends that is overwhelmingly supportive and fun-loving. And we are incredibly lucky that our sport is some of the cheapest, cleanest, most legal fun you can have. None of that is exclusive to big Class V. If we showcase all of these aspects of canoeing as well, people will want to be a part of it.

Well said Chris...

Don't get me wrong here... I highly enjoy seeing pictures and videos of the people going big and bad... but there's an entire world of people out there that have absolutely zero interest in doing any of that.

You've gotta remember... we're already boaters.

I'd be willing to wager that if you were able to actually poll every whitewater open boater on the planet and they answered honestly the law of averages would tell us that "most" ww-OC'ers would identify themselves class III paddlers.

Craig Smerda wrote:I'd be willing to wager that if you were able to actually poll every whitewater open boater on the planet and they answered honestly the law of averages would tell us that "most" ww-OC'ers would identify themselves class III paddlers.

Craig, sounds like you just volunteered to set up a poll on this site.

I would be interested in the results.

cheers
dave

Agree to disagree. Nike doesn't show slightly overweight middle-aged dads jogging in their commercials (even though that's a big market of who they sell running shoes and clothes to). They show Lebron, Kobe, Air Jordan, Bo Jackson back in the day etc...

I played highschool football (Class III) but I'm looking forward to watching the Super Bowl (V+) in a couple of weeks...

Canoeing rocks and a photo of a beautiful wilderness class II+ rapid with a canoe in Men's Journal would be great for the sport but I don't think anyone would want to watch a class II-III canoeing video on the Men's Journal website (it looks too boring)

You guys talk about people that don't paddle. Guess what. The Gauley looks easy to them on video. (even though they say "you're crazy" if you show a baby falls photo to them) I've shown videos of runs like the gauley to people at the office and they say "Oh that looks fun. I've been rafting before"

I wouldn't be too worried about scaring away new people with cool videos of IV-V. That's my 2 cents.