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I’m trying to understand why canoeists trash-talk kayakers so much. I learned how to paddle in an open canoe and spent a good 10 years paddling a Viper 11 in class 3-4 at least twice a week. I have spent the last 15 or so years paddling a kayak (though not as often as I would like) so I think I have a pretty good perspective as both a canoeist and a kayaker. I don’t label myself as one or the other. I am a paddler no matter what type of craft I take down the river. I feel fortunate to have learned in a canoe since I believe in order to be a really competent canoeist you need to learn to read the river well and to paddle efficiently. I don’t believe that this necessarily makes you a better paddler than someone who has only ever paddled a kayak since I have paddled with some pretty amazing boaters who have never been in a canoe. I must admit that I did my share of ‘trash talking’ before I started kayaking but now that I have a much broader perspective I don’t understand why. It seems to be very much one sided, with canoeists dissing kayakers much more than the other way around. I don’t know any kayakers who would feel the need to talk smack about canoeists. In fact I think most kayakers would think it was pretty cool to be paddling with open-boaters as long as they had the skills and a good attitude. I understand that ribbing your friends is fun, but trashing kayakers in general is pointless, unconstructive, and boring. One type of craft is no better than another. It is just the hunk of plastic that we each choose to slide down a hill of water in. It is the paddlers that make these craft come alive, and are we not all paddlers? If you really want to become a better one, open your eyes, broaden your perspective, learn from each other, and celebrate our shared passion.

Let the trash-talk begin…

-Skooks

Great post there skooks and great on so many levels. We may not realize how much of it we do and it probably only hurts us in the end. I have been giving some serious thought to spending some time in a Kayak this summer with the intent of learning some new skills and getting another perspecitive

Paddling any water craft makes u a better paddler. EJ can paddle anything.

big thumps up for your post.
Couldn`t be said better.

Very well said. It's the river that maters not the craft thats used on it.

Kayakers bad mouth canoers more than you think. it usually behind the back tho. snide comment after a flip or carnage "thatsss why u dont paddle a boat thats open in class 5 water" .... ect

More so than that....its all in the game man. It just tradition. We owe it to the kayaker to remind them that they paddle with a sissy stick and wear something called a 'skirt', just the same as you'd remind your buddy that hes about to make a big mistake as hes about to leave the bar with a very unattractive overweight female.

If you aren't on some level pissed off about the craft that is a kayak, then I dunno what kind of open boater yall are. We are all jealous of the double blade for easy propulsion plus bracing on both sides, add to this the 'super power' of repelling water, and keeping it from getting your in your boat...and you have something to be pretty jealous/pissed off about.

If your a class 5 gnar runner in a canoe, you've earned the right to say whatever you feel like saying about kayaks because what you do is way more inherently dangerous than ur two bladed counter parts.

So to answer your question... as a FullGnarlz Canoeist, I feel the need the rip on kayakers because I can. And there's not much they can say because they know canoeing the gnar is as badarse as it gets. And by taking jabs at kayakers... I am slowly shaming them, and opening up the possibility for them to pick up canoeing just to 'prove a point'...thus my Job is done.

If you are a canoer at heart... you too would let the kayaker know something as simple as "my grandma can kayak"

I fall asleep

I rip on kayaking...because I really think WW boaters need to come to the realization that Class-5 Canoeing is as gnarly and extreme as you can get. It is the pinnacle sport of whitewater paddling. There is nothing harder, nothing more awesome than styling the gnar in a canoe.

Good class 5 kayakers are a dime a dozen. I'm pushing for a paradigm shift in the whitewater world...that people realize Gnar Openboating is the end all be all in whitewater mastery. Because let's face it....it is.

By only having 1 paddle blade, on one side, it makes it so your balance has to be superior, and your anticipation and water reading skills have to be that much better than that of the kayaker. Add in the fact that if you mess up a move a little bit, and this will cause you to be slightly off line, which results in your boat filling up and the upcoming moves to become that much harder, as your now a 300lbs projectile. You fight to stay in control of your boat, and hit what remaining line you can 'make work'....because after all it's a class 5 rapid, and theres serious consequence to screwing up.


.... Kayaker don't have to worry about any of that. Openboat = Whitewater mastery at it's finest.

yawn

"As I`m cooking with electricity and I know that cooking with electricity is much harder than cooking with gas I feel free to talk smack about people that use gas because they don`t know a thing."

saying "we are all paddlers. we are all in the same" is yawn and sleep worthy. such a bland way to look at something that is otherwise all clean fun and games.

Dude you need to calm down and start doing it for yourself. Yes, it's great to push the sport but not with an attitude that says your better than everyones else cause your in a canoe. Kayaking is hard too man, try it some time. Your line of site is way less, you have less power in your stroke and you stick to holes a lot easier. Just paddle for yourself a chill out. No one wants to here how much better you think you are than a kayaker.

kayakin is no where near as hard as canoeing. hence why there are so many kayakers... anyone can do it.

and I answer the question to the thread... what do you want from me... dude should have known that was coming from me by posting such a thread.

sorry im not more diplomatic in my approach, or more politically correct...but then again not really...I can say the same thing about those paddling kaynoess... i can say... get in a real boat!

and you might not get as much power in ur strokes in a kayak, but the boat weighs less, and is always at 100% because you never get water in it. You can also throw 4x as many strokes in a kayak...so in reality - you do have more power in a kayak. There's a reason why kayaks can make moves that OCs have a much harder time...because you have two power sides and you can crank strokes out all day everyday.

I don’t know any kayakers who would feel the need to talk smack about canoeists. In fact I think most kayakers would think it was pretty cool to be paddling with open-boaters as long as they had the skills and a good attitude.

I m fortunate to paddle with a good group of mostly kayaks and they re great people... but to claim that they would never say anything about canoeing in a load of sh!t... Maybe you live on a different planet..

exactly... its like a storied tradition. the jabs go back and forth...they r in good fun. and it all makes for entertainment. after all...who likes BORING

Because it's fun and because I like to give as much as I get...called banter.
Actually, I like it when there's good spirited banter, I hasten to add.

I wait until I know the people well before the banter starts. So that's not the reason why I've got so few partners

see: http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7963567