why would you not use a pump?

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funkidreadz
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Post by funkidreadz » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:22 pm

This is kinda funny to read; I am not a pump guy because I am the sort of person whose cell fone battery runs flat in the middle of an important conversation. Relying on a battery to do the same job slower than my nevafull system does with gravity makes no sense to me.

One thing that really interests me pump guys and gals is why do people build such a long pipe between the pump and the outlet into the system, I have seen many systems with the outlet at the stern of the canoe, does this not just slow the process down?

the easiest solution is of course the dry line, so back to class 2 it is then cos there it is easy!

James

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Mr.DeadLegs
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Post by Mr.DeadLegs » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:24 pm

It slows it down and reduces the efficany of the pump. then when the pump loses prime you have all that water that is in the hose come back into the boat. LOCATE YOUR OUTLET AS CLOSE TO THE PUMP AS YOU CAN !!!
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Post by SlovenOC'er » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:43 pm

Perhaps a Freudian(spelling?) thing with the long hoses.

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Deb R
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Post by Deb R » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:10 pm

Mr.DeadLegs wrote:It slows it down and reduces the efficany of the pump. then when the pump loses prime you have all that water that is in the hose come back into the boat. LOCATE YOUR OUTLET AS CLOSE TO THE PUMP AS YOU CAN !!!
Yeah, I'm one of those who put the outlet in the stern of my boat just because that's where I was used to seeing them. I think I'm going to relocate it way closer to the pump when I get a chance. I find that the boat doesn't empty as much as I'd like it to. What's a good way to plug up the old hole in the stern once I move the outlet?

Deb

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the great gonzo
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Post by the great gonzo » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:34 pm

funkidreadz wrote:This is kinda funny to read; I am not a pump guy because I am the sort of person whose cell fone battery runs flat in the middle of an important conversation. Relying on a battery to do the same job slower than my nevafull system does with gravity makes no sense to me.

One thing that really interests me pump guys and gals is why do people build such a long pipe between the pump and the outlet into the system, I have seen many systems with the outlet at the stern of the canoe, does this not just slow the process down?

the easiest solution is of course the dry line, so back to class 2 it is then cos there it is easy!

James
Has anyone tried the nevafull system in a Prelude? Or in a bigger boat in the 11-12 ft range?

TGG!
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing - Henry David Thoreau

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Post by funkidreadz » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:32 pm

I think NevaFull would work in a Prelude, it might need more or bigger holes than the Taureau but the buoyancy in the boat compared ot how much water can fit in ratio I think is positive.
I put 2 extra holes in my SpanishFly to speed up the process.
I am sure that if I had the time and the brains to work out how much water fitted into the canoe and the flow rate out of one 32mm diameter hole you could kinda guesstimate how many holes or how big or how long it would take to empty any given canoe.

For anybody who is gifted in Maths here are few figures to start with;
my taureau has space for about 40Litres of water I guess, it has 6 32mm diameter holes and takes almost no time to drain(about 2seconds at a really rough guess)

Confused and going to bed...
James

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Post by yarnellboat » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:13 pm

I looked it into when I was paddling tandem - it was by far more of a priority for the tandem boat, but...

1) There's some technical competency required, which I don't have - it was too complicated because there was too much info available, and I couldn't sort what a good system/battery would be;

2) I'm not paddling paddling much tandem now, so dropped it; and,

3) I don't have as much time for paddling now, so there's a long list of outfitting/boat that needs repairs, so a new thing is at the bottom of the list.

Bootom line, I'd love one, but it's proven to be too much hassle for me.

I would like one for long, hard runs where it gets tiring dumping water, and decked boaters get tired of waiting.

Basically I'm hoping Einar has lots of debt to pay back and that he'll coordinate a pump installation workshop, so that it can happen under supervision by somebody who knows about wires, switches and batteries! Until then, I guess I just don't care enough.

Pat.

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Post by YTcanoe » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:24 pm

Adding mechanically/electrically powered elements to a self propelled sport don't seem right to me.

just my opinion


However, a lot of people get really defensive when asked about their pumps - maybe an underlying sense of guilt? :wink:

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Post by dafriend » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:28 pm

Deb R wrote:What's a good way to plug up the old hole in the stern once I move the outlet?
Might depend on how you make the hole. Using a hole-saw you get a slug. Save that and epoxy it back in when you're selling the boat. I have a history of wearing out my boats so I've never tested this approach. I do have a several slugs around here somewhere.

As far as outlet placement I have settled on my offside as near to the center as possible. More or less just off your hip. It's a short run to the pump and won't induce any turning momentum to the boat. There is a surprising amount of thrust generated by the outflow. I had a Rival where putting it on the center line at the back was impractical. So it got located at the back to one side. The boat would, if left alone, be spinning quite nicely by the time a full load was emptied.

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Percentages

Post by Einar » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:49 am

As to efficiency of simple vane pumps my understanding is that it is 10% loss per foot of lift along plus an additional percentage for the friction of cheap ribbed hose that I use. Throw in a tired half life battery and you can lose 30% before you put it in the water. I just finished shrtening mine up and exiting thru a $4 thruhull.
Before i had the wisdom of this forum to guide me I had to talk myself into a pump. So I filled a bagged out Detonator up with water, hopped in to displace some more, then put a new 1100 Rule on a new battery and pumped it out into a 5 gal bucket. i refilled the boat till the output sucked.
(I know: getta life, just install it and go paddling)
It was years ago but I think that the 2 lb pump/1.3ah battery shifted 250 lbs of water. That is a lotta extra weight.
I shifted a sack of beer watching and emptying the bucket. It was trade off.

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Post by milkman » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:37 am

Adding mechanically/electrically powered elements to a self propelled sport don't seem right to me.
Good point.

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Post by iRolled » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:09 am

I got a pump. It's laying on the floorboard behind the seat of my truck. The last time I used it was on the upper Gauley during the festival. Anyhow, I like pumps, you can go right back into a playhole without having to dump every time you filler up.

I ripped the pump out of my Maxim the night before the Gauley and slapped it in my Viper 11. used it that one weekend and just havent kept up with the thing since then. That was probably the last time I used my Viper too.

My pump set-up is pretty simple, SLA, atwood 1250, and a light switch. I dont even waterproof anything and if you buy one of those fancy waterproof switches, it will eventually die out on you. They all do. So i'd go with a light switch, just take some pliers and bend the ears off the switch and you're good to go.
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Dale Barton
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Pumps

Post by Dale Barton » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:56 am

One word. AGE. pumps make us old folks able to still go for it. dale

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Post by philcanoe » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:48 am

  • :o
    • :wink:
:D

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Re: why would you not use a pump?

Post by Dennysdad » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:55 pm

Ok this is an interesting topic, I resisted the switch to plastic
My son convinced me to go that way and since I did no large steaming pile of dog doo, I thanked him
At least 50 times and will every time I get off of a river
Keep in mine he started out as a oc1er at the age of 10
Oced the Tohickon at 12 dryway at 13 before he switched out to c1
He is now telling me I should go pump
I think I should listen to him, there is no room to bail in the new boats
Even difficult to hand pump, I have a aquatera hand pump for that
I'm had to rig it up with a strap so I could pump with one hand while holding position
In an eddy align shore with the other , enough already
I am going to listen to my son again
I am a lifelong oc1er, got a canoeing merit badge back in 58 haha
But I am looking for a system to put in a boat with bulkhead
If in doubt think dead river at 5000 water in trees 15 miles continuous bailing in mid river

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