C-Forum

I've been paddling an Outrage since I started whitewater canoeing. I paddle with my local club, and in the last year I've been moving up from 2+ to some 3-3+runs. Lately, I've been considering stepping up to a less stable/more maneuverable boat. Maybe something along the lines of a Viper or Ocoee.

Well, someone nearby has a new Maxim for sale at good price. I know that would be quite a departure from the Outrage. But I'm kind of intrigued. It sounds like fun.

The question is, with enough gusto and patience, could I make it work , or would I just hate life?

I have pretty good balance. But I also do swim quite a bit. I usually make it through the big rapids alright.

I wonder if there are any other consequences of moving to a short boat. I'm already thinking I might need new airbags and and my spare paddle would need to be a break-down. I could kiss attainments goodbye. And I wouldn't have the Outrage's hole-busting ability. Flat sections between rapids might get tiresome...

On the positive side, I like the idea of having so much maneuverability and, in general, having a boat that I can learn to use in different ways.

Any thoughts?

thanks,
Greg

I want to support MOhawk. I have owned a lot of them, but I would forget the Maxim if you swim a lot already. The Zoom is more stable and those are about the only 2 boats I have not owned. The Spanish Fly, L'Edge, Prelude, Superfly, Quake, a Viper 11 if you weigh under 180.

Who do you want to be, where do you want to take it?
Fit the boat to your ambition; a good deal ain't so good if you're just repeating the moves. IMHO !

I wopuld try the boat if you can,even a pool session could be of help!!
I think the Ocoee/Vipper would be a better way to go!

Wow, never heard the words 'zoom' and 'stable' in the same sentance.

Thanks for all the speedy replies.

My initial objective was to simply to find a new boat that's more responsive than the Outrage, while still getting me down the river. Sounds like the Maxim is more of a specialized item? I don't mind a bit of a learning curve, but it sounds like the effort to reward ratio might not work in my favor. Is this boat just for creeking?

I can't speak to the Maxim in particular, but I don't think you'll hate moving to a short boat. Since I got a taureau, I have become a lot more comfortable with my off-side forward stroke, and I now use more bow correction strokes than I did with a longer boat.

I paddled a run last fall that is known for having annoying long pools. I was nervous about taking my taureau, but it was the only thing I had airbags for at the time. 3 minutes after putting on, I quit worrying about it and it was fine.

Hope this helps,
Shep

I just went from an Encore to a Ledge and couldn`t be happier!

THe maxim is unstable till you get it dailed in as far as hole busting it holdes its on. I hae used the boat on creeks and big water and it eats both up. The Maxim is very fast for a short boat. That being said the viper 11 is very nimble and till the Maxim it was my boat of choice

Busterblue,

It sounds like our situations are similar. I have been paddling about 1.5 years now and started out in a Dagger Encore. I quickly (like after 4 river trips) realized I wanted something shorter and more responsive. I ended up buying a Maxim. This boat does have a steep learning curve, and you will swim out of it (a lot), but I felt that it fast-tracked me to having better technique (not that my technique is great now, but it helped). The boat has little tolerance for mistakes with edge control, and quickly bites back. This can either discourage you, or you can choose to learn from it. I had a good attitude and enjoyed the boat. I ended up selling it after I got a L'Edge because I want to paddle the plastic boat.

The Maxim is a very polarizing boat - people either hate it or love it. Like someone said, get it on some water (even if it is only a pool) and give it a shot to find out where your attitude towards the boat falls. Just don't let anyone tell you that you can't go to a boat like the Maxim this quickly. It isn't what I would call a confidence inspiring boat, but it is a good, strict teacher.

As long as you are willing to stick with it and not get discouraged, the Maxim (or any high performance boat) will be rewarding. You may have to drop back down to class 2 to develop your comfort in the boat, but once you get to know the boat you will enjoy it.

For me, the boats which scared me the most off the bat have become the most fun! And plus, if someone has a maxim in your backyard for a good price, why not give it a shot?

My friend Carlos was on his third canoe trip on the Ocoee this past sunday and was in a Superfly. He is a kayaker from Veracruz that has been hanging out with us lately, and we've been feeding his curiosity about OC1. Anyhow, at the end of the day he wanted to try out my Maxim. So I let him jump in my boat and play around in it for a while. As soon as he got in it he said "Oh, I like this much better" He said it was so much more stable than the Superfly and that he felt real comfortable in it. I miself was quite surprized by his comment. I thought of the boats stabilities to be the other way around. It is obviously directly proportional to his weight, I think. Him being 160 lbs. and me at 215.

Give the boat a try, and if you're not happy with it, Go with a Viper 11. It too is an awesome boat with lots of speed. But it doesn't boof like the Maxim, or whip into eddy's like a Maxim. Also very easy to roll. I love it.

Even though I like the idea of high-performance canoes to boost your technique and style, you need some basic level. If you don't have the basics, you'll get into bad habits due to tippy canoes.

Not claiming the TS does not have the basic skills required! Just something to take into account. And yes, be ready to learn from your mistakes. A drysuit might be a good investment as well. That's what I did: an extreme canoe and a drysuit.

I moved from a Viper11 to a prelude, love both canoes.

Thanks for the replies. I decided to hold off on the Maxim. I'm not in a rush for a new boat, so I'll take to opportunity to try out some different boats over time.

If you don't have the basics, you'll get into bad habits due to tippy canoes.

Anything in particular to watch out for?

I've been mulling over the idea of buying one of the plastic boats--I hear their praises on the forums so much. It's just more of a financial commitment, assuming it would be easier to eventually find a used Royalex boat for much less.

I'm thinking of:
- being constantly in a low brace because the canoe feels tippy
- no nice vertical forward stroke but always a bit too much angled, because it adds a bit more stability
- taking off-side eddies in a low brace because you're afraid to tip over offside - or practice teaches you you tip over every offside eddy
- ... .

Not that you will do any or all of these. But that might be the type of paddling you don't want to go, but will go without notice if you jump to an extreme canoe just that bit too early.

But the most important factor probably is the mentality of the paddler. If those details matter to you, you probably won't fall into the pitfall. And if you mentally can't handle the hard lessons, you probably move to a more forgiving canoe.

btw, with you I mean any paddler in this type of situation, nobody in particular

I personally like the hard lessons the Prelude is learning me. I think it makes me a better paddler. But that's me, it won't work for everybody.