C-Forum

Seems like there's a common mantra lately...

That all strokes done from the stern should be avoided like the plague. While this sentiment is grand, if the overall goal is speed. But is speed always the objective? We've all heard that speed kills, and many times the opposite to moving forward is good. In my (:roll:) opinion it's a lot easier to do, and often better to slow down. Gaining control can be gained by going slower than the flow.

I'm thinking...


For instance a good forward cross bow sweep is great, but when at the end of a stoke, you can be left on the wrong side. In this case sometimes a onside stern sweep would be nice, so that a immediate onside forward stroke is possible. Where it's really a situation of what's going to be your next move (and what's going to happen next). The delay in speed caused by doing a rear correction (at the proper moment) might also be an added welcome. For instance it might be in the plan for missing -that- rock, or gaining an eddy. Stern work is also mighty powerful, so there may be benefit's in conserving energy.

Another instance might be when a particular lean is required. I tend to think of leans in eight directions. In addition to left, and right, and front, and back, there are also the four diagonal leans. Which when used with a stern stroke can do a lot of good. Another time is when doing back ferry's. Where the stern component may be the major steering portion, or the setup stroke. I'm sure there are many more examples...

OK - tell me why I' wrong ... this is JMHO.

The more strokes you know, the better (leans too).

I don't think of any stroke as "bad", some are just more appropriate at certain times than others, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Watching a bit of This is Canoeing on expedition paddling I was struck by how much some of the moves reminded me of oar rigs (rafts) where as much, if not more, of the paddling in whitewater was back strokes to slow down and avoid hazards vs. speeding up to maneuver around them.

That's very different from WildWater paddling for sure:)

I'm guessing some of the "bad" strokes folks are calling out might be more aptly called "inappropriate", but it's easier to say don't use that stroke than explain why, and referencing your goal on the water that day and style of paddling.

The best part of watching the "greats" who are true masters of the paddling craft (even kayakers!) is what strokes they use in certain situations where us mere mortals would never think to use them.

I use stern strokes all the time.
there. i said it!

...it takes... different strokes... it takes... different strokes... to move the wurld

Absolutely - poor form stern strokes are to be avoided.

There's nothing wrong with a stern stroke - as long as it doesn't force you to lose speed (assuming that you didn't want to lose speed. If you need to turn quickly and a duffek is at the other extreme of your rhythm, even a quick pry is OK, IMHO.

In fact, I've noticed that when I'm doing an offside forward stroke, it's almost always finished with a small stern draw to turn the boat more to my on-side.

Sir Adam wrote:... what strokes they use in certain situations where us mere mortals would never think to use them.

Is it fair to say different hulls respond differently? Some boats readily respond to bow strokes and others not as well? For example, in my limited experience, my Rival seems like it's on rails as soon as I lean forward. I've been told Bob Foote designed the Rival to respond to stern moves since it suits his style and others have scolded me for *any* stern moves. I try to limit stern corrections to quick "pops" (prys) to minimize their penalty as much as possible and use them only when they seem appropriate.

Is that reasonable or just a rank amateur rationalizing?

Doug

The best answer is to be able to use "any" stroke effectively. Then you can pick as you choose. Yes, stern correction strokes will kill your speed. But maybe you don't care, or maybe you even want to. Also, different boats do respond differently. If it won't crank around for you at a critical moment, apply maximum measures!

Back in the prehistoric days, boat control was exercised by being SLOWER than the current, as opposed to modern technique which favors being faster than the current. So everyone learned to do lots of back/stern strokes. Some of those old guys could hover like a helicopter while the water went by. As people began to paddle bigger, faster water, it got to be harder keep control that way, so the focus became to maintain control by being aggressive & moving faster than the water, and avoiding stern correction strokes which would kill your speed. So stern prys etc got a bad name.

Personally, I think that being heavily dependent on stern strokes indicates a possible technical weakness that could catch up with you someday. But I also suspect some folks who avoid them at all times also lack versatility and the ability to apply them effectively and THAT'S a technical weakness, too. S--- happens, and in a desperate situation you may need to apply desperate measures -- effectively.

The more tricks in your bag the stronger boater you are. Learn them all & take your pick. And if your particular boat design is cranky, it's a cranky boat so deal with it.

I do my share of stern prys... .. . when I have to. Otherwise I'll stick to forward correction strokes.

Let's take the case of avoiding a rock or hole. A forward correction stroke will not only turn the boat but will also draw you away from the danger. A stern pry will only turn the boat so it must be followed by a forward stroke, which takes time because your paddle is at the back of the boat. Also, since the pry slows you up you might have to take additional strokes to regain momentum and miss the obstacle. This lost time might just put you into the hole or wrapped around the rock.

My wife no longer cares for them.

One situation where stern strokes seem MORE effective and appropriate than other strokes in on shallow slides. I'd think that in that situation a cross- bow draw would be a good way to lose some teeth.

I know the focus here is solo canoeing, but rearward strokes are the most powerful correction for a stern paddler in a tandem team. It’s easy to go too fast in a tandem so slowing strokes are usually helpful, too.

I also assume it’s obvious to most that rearward control is used almost exclusively when surfing.

In some c-1s, like my old, old Phoenix, the swedeform shape and the cockpit being a bit too far forward may make forward control strokes less effective. My Millbrook Wide Ride also has the cockpit rim a bit too far forward. In such cases, "cab forward" paddling is less effective, and using stern strokes even while leaning back can be the most effective thing one can do.

The new fishform open boats like the Spark are more responsive to forward control, while stern strokes may not work as well as they do in an older design, the Hooter being an example.

Paddlers need to be clear about how their boat is designed and trimmed, and adjust their stroke strategies accordingly.

and adjust their stroke strategies accordingly.

Very true... there are no bad stokes just ones that be a bad choice at that particular moment in time!

This doesn't mean that paddl drag'n is a good option! My $.01!