Seat belt buckles and quick releases

hankrankin · Post by **hankrankin** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:28 pm

Currently in my playboat i have the plastic buckles on my lap belt that you squeeze from the sides. The belt slips and loosens slightly when i make big movements such as jumping forward for loops, and then i have to pop my skirt in the eddy readjust and go again. Its annoying, plus every now and then i fall out of my hip pads and i miss my roll a couple times before getting back up. Some one recomended i find a plane seatbelt. heres my question, i was on a plane yesterday studying the belt, and found that there are two springs in the lever, one keeps the lever from constantly falling open and one keeps it closed, and i got to thinking that if one of the springs breaks than would the lever release? and it became a safety concern. does anyone have insight into exactly how these belts work, are they made to be fail safe, does anyone not like how heavy and/or bulky they may be (big hunk of metal sitting on ur lap), does anyone have any other ideas for release buckles? What about the plastic quick release buckles that are on the tow straps of rescue vests?

ESP · Post by **ESP** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:43 pm

I have been an airline pilot for 22 years and have never seen an aircraft belt buckle fail. They are pretty bombproof.

hankrankin · Post by **hankrankin** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:56 pm

It's good to know u have never seen one fail but what about themuch more substantial amount of abuse it would probably take in a boat? Secondly can you get me one? Haha they're pretty darn expensive from my research, and I'm assuming taking one off a plane would be direct violation of federal law

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:43 pm

Some of my friends uses the plastic buckles you find on rescue belts and like them, I found them kind of hard to clip/unclip and I tested a couple different type of plastic buckles including fastex and others and they can break or fail...

For thighstraps they don't go on so much pressure but for lapstrap in playboat the airplane buckles are definitely the way to go. I got some cheap chinese ones with 1.5 inches webbing but they began to rust and are up to the garbage can as soon as I get my new delivery from Skybelts.com to replace them. The 4 other buckles I have from Skybelts are doing great 20$ a buckle but it's worth it and the little extra weight in your boat. Thanks to larry who recommended them to me and also order just the buckles not the webbing from skybelts and find some polypro webbing it won't slip as much and cost less than the nylon webbing they have.

ESP · Post by **ESP** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:56 pm

Unfortunately I am unable to obtain any belt buckles from aircraft. I have to purchase them just like you. The reason that they are so expensive is due to all of the testing that takes place to get a "TSO" cirtification. Also, they do see a great deal of abuse. They are typically opened at least 20 times a day, 7 days a week. Finally, they are designed to withstand the high G forces associated with an airplane crash.

coloradopaddler · Post by **coloradopaddler** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:15 pm

it sounds to me like you are using quick release backpack buckles on your lap belt. you can make it more permanent by backing up those parts with what i call a tri glide. it is like a belt buckle kind of. it looks like a square with a divider. put that on the webbing then put your qr part where you want it and run the tag end through the tri glide again. that will keep the webbing from slipping.
tri glides are a buck or so a piece too, depending on the size of the webbing you are using.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:42 pm

As documented on the forum several years ago; Airline buckles (genuine ones too) have failed on people in use, and more worryingly in the event that they do... they're "Fail Deadly" and won't open.

I was planning on using them to replace my cam buckles (BA harness buckles, they're prone to slippage, and tend to be hard to release in an emergency which eventually lead to me spending well over a minute underwater on two occassions); but after seeing what had happened to niall's straps I decided to fit snap shackles instead.

Pierre LaPaddelle · Post by **Pierre LaPaddelle** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:55 pm

For years, I relied on plastic (Fastex?) cam-buckles for quick-release thigh straps -- same kind as on rescue vests. Problem was, they deteriorated, and blew up at inopportune times.

Recently, I've gone to lift-flap aircraft type buckles. They are stainless steel, so no problem with rust or corrosion, far as I can see.

They are not certified by the Department of Paperwork, so aren't as expensive as 'real' aircraft buckles -- but they look the same to me.

Heavy? Maybe marginally more than plastic.

Expensive? Yeah, a little more than plastic.

Do they work? Like a hot dam!

PM me if you want a source -- the company I've dealt with provides very good service.

Rick

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:05 pm

TheKrikkitWars wrote:As documented on the forum several years ago; Airline buckles (genuine ones too) have failed on people in use, and more worryingly in the event that they do... they're "Fail Deadly" and won't open.

What? First time I hear that... Out of corrosion or what exactly? Mines are stainless so works good so far.

The only thing is you have to open them up to 90 degrees angle until they release that I would love to decrease if possible but I can't see how I would do that... I just give them a big shot and I'm out usually...

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:19 pm

http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php? ... t="Mission"

The small internal parts required for opening had worn and failed...

WRT Stainless steel remember it's root is "Stain-Less". It's not corrosion impervious, just highly resistant; and small part made of stainless will still be vulnerable to corroding to failure.

Edit: More detail here

ESP · Post by **ESP** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:37 pm

The answer to failure due to corrosion is periodic maintenance (lubrication) and proper inspection of equipment before using. Problem resolved.

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:53 pm

Yep. As with all of your gear, periodic inspection is advised

Then, stay away from counterfeit chinese buckles (products) and you're fine. I could see how a cheap one could loose or break a hinge pin and be stuck closed.

But real airplane buckles are about as simple as you can get, and I can't think of any other buckle with as much testing and real world use. And I would imagine they're designed for LOTS of use.

There are two springs. The lighter spring keeps the outer lever closed, if it were to break, the lever would flop around but the buckle would still function. The other (heavier)keeps the inner latch closed, if it were to break, the buckle would not latch. It would always be able to be opened.

The only way they could be difficult to open is if you have them set too close to the top anchor...with a cord connecting the two buckles, that makes it hard to open the lever to the required angle.
Put them as low and they work great.

marclamenace · Post by **marclamenace** » Mon May 16, 2011 7:11 pm

OK krikkit I see you mean the chinese copy. I got some as I mentionned and after less than 20 days on the water they didn't fail yet but just by the look of it are pretty well on their way...

Often end up in the same way for me: you think you're gonna save about 50% off on a chinese cheapo and end up loosing the other 50% :the one you paid for!

btw I have the amsafe stainless ones now and they are not exactly 100% failsafe: just make sure in your setup they are far enough from your thights (down in the boat real close to the hull) or else if they touch your legs the pull might not be as straight and they won't release as easily. They tend to resist when the buckle is twisted... Having them far enough also ensure they release easier as you have to pull a bit far on the buckle to release the mechanism. In my remix I have that huge saddle that takes so much space the result isn't ideal. Apart from that it's all good so far no rust or anything.

dafriend · Post by **dafriend** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:36 am

I put an automotive seat belt similar to this one http://www.jcwhitney.com/chrome-lift-la ... 06829.jcwx# in my Fink. The 60s style lift latch releases with very little movement and does not bind under pressure. The chrome plating is showing no signs of corrosion despite many hours (three winters worth) of heavily chlorinated pool time.