Large Paddler in a short boat - is there hope?

arhdc · Post by **arhdc** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:59 pm

Ok, so I know that I'll get a million reply's telling to "search the dang forum". I have searched and can't seem to find much referencing us over 225 pound paddlers so here goes.

I am a relatively short 5'8" 240lbs paddler and would love to get into of the under 10' boats that seem to be gaining popularity these days. Most of the time I am told that a nice XL13 or one of the tandems paddled solo is my ticket but those short boats look so darn fun.

So here is my question, what, if any, of the under 10' OC1's currently out there are going to be able to perform reasonably for a slightly heaver than typical paddler.

As a side note, I have known a fair few guys who are open boaters primarily because they are large and don't really fit well into a kayak. Kayak manufacturers have come out with more and more options for the big guys but the whitewater canoes seem to be trending more and more towards the 140-180lbs paddlers. Is there hope for those of us who will never weigh under 180lbs unless we have cancer?

If this has been hashed out ad nauseam please let me know and I'll happily go crawl under a rock and not trouble you all any longer.

Thanks all.

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:36 pm

You really need to demo an Esquif L'Edge, its 9'2" and has a good amount of initial stability and lots of volume. There are guys your size paddling the L'Edge and loving it. A couple months ago I put 60# of weight in my boat and added me (185) just to get a feel for how the boat handles and was surprised at the result. It was just a tad less spinny as I believe more of the boat (lengthwise) was in the water and still was solid feeling. Shout out where you are located and lets see if we can find someone to let you try out their L'Edge.

TheKrikkitWars · Post by **TheKrikkitWars** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:47 pm

I seem to remember that Craig talked about wanting to cater to the big fellows when he was designing the l'edge... Everything I've heard tells me that he succeeded.

ezwater · Post by **ezwater** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:45 pm

I've been weighing in the 220-230 range for some time, and I just allow myself bigger boats to match. But if there's something only a sub-10 boat can do for you, try L'edge.

TonyB · Post by **TonyB** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:17 pm

At 235 I find the Ledge to be the best short boat for my weight. I still havnt found an option outfitted so I can fit my fat butt in it. Maybe Jeremy will put bigger outfitting in the next size larger he designs.
But the L'Edge is still dry for me and floats pretty high. Performs as well as my lack of skills allows it.

Wiggins · Post by **Wiggins** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:24 pm

A lot of people will disagree with me, but try any and all of the sub 10' boats you can get your hands on, then try the L'edge. You might find something else works better for you.

I love my L'edge, and bought it because it is the big boy short boat and there were no boats to demo around here. I am 5'11" and 210 pounds so I played it safe. That being said there are people who like being in a boat that is too small for them by most others standards. When I was researching the same question I found a lot of guys who were over 200 pounds and loved their Preludes and Maxims. For years I paddled a Riot Inferno and was happy with it. At 54 gallons and a top weight recommendation of 175 pounds.

Differnet strokes!

Kyle

Pierre LaPaddelle · Post by **Pierre LaPaddelle** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:09 pm

Hey Lappie --

How are you liking your new Bulldog??

Post by **sbroam** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:12 am

Try a Spanish Fly, too - even at 220, I think there is room for more boater... With 20 or more pounds of water in it, I can still manage. But, yeah, the L'Edge has even more volume - meaning it's going to be harder to ender

kx250guy · Post by **kx250guy** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:40 am

One thing to keep in mind is a good waterline . Sinking a boat due to a heavy paddler means having a lot of boat below the waterline and that makes it harder when creeking. You will be hittin rocks when others who are lighter in the same boat will not. It will be wetter going off drops.
Most boats are designed to have a certain waterline for peak performance. I suggest a bigger boat may actually handle quicker
than a smaller boat that sits lower in the water.
Dont limit yourself to sub 10 foot boats, Remember the overall length is not an indicator of its quickness.
Im not suggesting a glass boat, but for example , several of Kaz's solo boats at 13' are very quick , at least as quick as a lil edge, or comparable design.
So Try several boats I say, Ocoee etc.
Good Luck!

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:18 am

Speaking of Millbrook... isn't there a "Big Boy"? Didn't see it on the site, but I recall reading something about the Defiants "bigger brother".... Not sure of the specs and if it meets what you are looking for or not.

arhdc · Post by **arhdc** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:54 am

Thanks to all for your input. I am not opposed to longer boats but I wanted to see what thoughts you had on some of the shorter ones for us big guys. I will try to paddle some of the shorter boats that have been mentioned.

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:59 am

If you do find any threads on this, they were probably mine. I'm about 225lbs and 5'10ish. I paddle an Outrage, which is great, but I've been wanting a shorter and/or edgier boat.

I agree that Craig/Esquif did a great job with the L'Edge making a short boat that will carry big guys! Probably your best bet. Most short boats with big guys in them will be some mixture of wet, slow and/or unstable. That's just the way it is.

In addition to the L'Edge there may be hope in old little boats like the Quake, but it depends what you want to use the boat for.

I agree that kayak manufacturers have been doing lot for a range of body types, but the average canoe design seems to be for realtively light people! It's not like 220 is huge, but boats like the Zoom, Solito, Viper 11, etc. perform best for lighter folks. Sure, there are heavy guys who paddle Preludes etc., but I'd suggest they tend to be high-end paddlers who paddle a lot, not out-of-shape weekend warriors.

I am still hoping that Esquif will come out with a longer version of a L'Edge - similar boat for big guys, with more hull speed - I recall Craig saying something about a L'Edge 10'4"? But don't hold your breath.

In the meantime I'm going to try an Ocoee, not exactly a short boat by some standards, but will be a change from the Outrage anyway, plus I've got some lousy C-1s to pay with when I want a shorter boat.

So, bottom line to your question: L'Edge.

Pat.

p.s. Not a very common boat, but, for me, in competition with the L'Edge, Ocoee and Viper 12 was the Hellman Otter - I'm confident it would also perform well for a big guy.

ice-breaker · Post by **ice-breaker** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:35 pm

Smurfwarrior wrote:You really need to demo an Esquif L'Edge, its 9'2" and has a good amount of initial stability and lots of volume. There are guys your size paddling the L'Edge and loving it. A couple months ago I put 60# of weight in my boat and added me (185) just to get a feel for how the boat handles and was surprised at the result. It was just a tad less spinny as I believe more of the boat (lengthwise) was in the water and still was solid feeling. Shout out where you are located and lets see if we can find someone to let you try out their L'Edge.

Piling more weight into your boat is not quite the same as putting a heavier paddler into the canoe. The total weight may be the same, but the distribution of weight is quite different. A more realistic simulation would be to strap a couple of 20 lb weights to your chest and back, and another to your butt. Of course, that may not be a good thing if you have to swim.

cheers
dave

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:32 pm

FWIW... the target weight range was from 150-225lbs... although there are even bigger paddlers that have found the boat to be stable, dry and still floating them well.

Smaller or lighter paddlers or people that just want a bit snappier boat can tinker with the thwart lengths or go full-on modified...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 19522e26ea

stock on the left---modified on the right

For creeking, big-water and overall piece of mind... I like the stock boat the best... but for river running and zipping around... the modified version is a real hoot. For the heavier folks I wouldn't suggest pulling it in too much... but one can always make a couple of cheap pine test thwarts and see if they find something that suits their desire.

arhdc · Post by **arhdc** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:38 pm

Thanks for the input Pat. What you are saying is pretty much in line with what I had been finding. I also agree that there are a lot of boats out there that big guys paddle but that are less ideal for them. In many cases even the longer boats are designed for smaller paddlers and the big guys just need to plan on being wetter and less stable.

I have read a fair amount of feedback on the L'Edge for 220-225lbs paddlers but I have yet to find anything that really gives feedback for anyone heavier than that. An Ocoee is a good thought being a fairly short, more modern design, but how do they handle the weight? One of the specs that is missing in the canoe world is volume below the waterline and the draft at that volume. If you know those things you can look at the spec sheet and get an idea of how much further a given weight will sink it.

I am just exploring the idea of short boats and this all give me a place to start.

Thanks Craig for the info, none of the manufacturers seem to give this kind of information, again in contrast to kayak manufacturers.