What would make slalom racing more appealing to you?

[Craig Smerda]

as a spectator... competitor... first timer... used to do'er... whatever you've got to offer let's hear it

[PAC]

I was wondering who would drag this over here!

Basically just making it more accessible and fun for folks... once they do it they usually do it again.

One thing I personally think is - based on talking to kids - is the 10 sec touch is too heavy! It’s a turn off for first timers who can paddle well enough to get through a course. Time is king and a touch or two (or more) can ruin what a beginner or once a year warrior thinks is a good run.

Most folks don't have a course to train on or a coach to help them figure it out. Not to mention boats that they might consider a racing boat.

Beside the better racers are still going to be faster and having a smaller touch penalty would encourage even more aggressive racing and strategy.

More races would be cool to.

Looking forward to Riversport!

[yarnellboat]

More friendly races for "rec boats" - open canoes only. Not that other races are unfriendly, but I mean friendly to a class II-III hack in an Impulse.

I think slalom gates are a great way for weekend warriors (like me) to improve their skills, but people are intimidated by keeners who train and have specialized equipment.

The 'hmmm-that's-not-really-what-I-do' intimidation factor is one thing, but price is another - I like slalom, but I'm not about to buy a boat just for slalom. Or even travel far for a race.

The challenge to organizing friendly races for recreational paddlers is the know-how to set up a course and run a race. We were lucky in BC that there's a permanent course set up nearby on the Chilliwack, and a race organization there that was willing to put on the race for us.

So, now we have the Tamihi Five-0 open boat slalom for weekend warriors! But we couldn't have done it without the slalom organization being there to set the course and do the judging and timing, not to mention insurance.

After being jealous of the Gull River race in Ontario, we stepped up and created our own event out here. It's a fun annual event that's a good season wind-up and gets people paddling beyond their cliques, and in some cases beyond their abilities!

We do it a rapid that has a bad reputation, but we do it on the lower section of the rapid and at low water, so people get some satisfcation out of paddling in a rapid they never thought they'd paddle, or have been told they shouldn't paddle. It's got a few people paddling harder rapids more quickly, it's got a few old canoeists dusting off their OC gear, and it's got people from different regions paddling together. Over time, it may even produce some slalom paddlers.

And I think that's what needs to happen - people need to step up and create more fun little races - add one to the schedule of your local clubs! If you've got a handful of OC friends in your region, start an event.

Another thing we've talked about is whether just clinics would be better for getting more people out than actual races, even fun-oriented ones.

T50 website:
http://www3.telus.net/~soloboat/

Pat.

[milkman]

Clinics have been very successful at our annual slalom here in Portland. Unfortunately, these clinics are geared for both kayaks and canoes and have attracted mostly kayakers. We do get some OC1s, OC2s and C1s.

Myself, I don't really care for slalom. The world is a slalom course. We have enough local rivers and year-round choices that you really don't need a slalom course to practice your skills. Not that I'm saying I couldn't improve by working out moves on a slalom course. It's more given the choice of running gates or running a river, I choose the river every time and get my slalom jollies out using rocks and other river features rather than gates.

I wonder if part of this is that one of the great things about whitewater canoeing is it's not a competitive sport and there's something about slalom that sullies that feeling of freedom from competition. I do usually go out and run the course a few times since our club sponsors the slalom, but I never participate in race day--even though the organizers stress it's not about winning but about personal bests. I'm not interested in speed in making the moves. I'm just interested in making the moves.

[Shep]

Need more courses. I don't know how far I have to drive to find a course from NW Arkansas. I know there is one at NOC, and several in CO, but <6 hours would be a real benefit.

Shep

[Mikey B]

Same problem as Shep...have to drive too dang far!!! Why oh why do I live in MI

[FullGnarlzOC]

more women - is my suggestion - the rest of you have pretty much hit the nail on the head



To reiterate what Pat said - Pat is right - smaller races - bringing local clubs together, getting people out there for fun - the paddlers that excel, will pursue more serious races, in turn growing the sport.

This would also solve the problem of - not enough races close enough and races being too hard for people. I competed in a local PA slalom race last weekend - the course was challenging for being on class I-II - and I had a blast. Imagine that... at gnar boater, having fun slaloming on class I-II.... It's about the friendly competition between you and your friends - we just need more access to events like that... aka Local clubs throwing races - great idea Pat

[Don Beyer]

Slalom, particularly open canoe slalom, would benefit from better exposure in media. Professional image yet friendly and welcoming. We have gotten to know some of the nicest paddlers through slalom racing. We need to build on that.
Personally, I like the 10 sec touch penalty because if encourages better technique over brute force, which is how we benefit from slalom in our everyday river running technique.
The Club Challenge series of races at NOC are meant to be introductory and they have about 7 gates, don't count touches at all - just time. And they're free. Miss a gate and that run doesn't count. We have seen a lot of folks really get into it that may not have tried it otherwise.
More accessibility to more races would be great. We offered a race here in WV a few years ago but only had a half dozen entries. Disappointing, but it told us that we had more work to do.

[avlclimber]

I really enjoyed the very crowded recent NOC challenge. It was my first time slaloming. I found it frustrating that the gates were low enough that my gunwales would whack them all askew when I was trying to slide in all stylee-like. I would have enjoyed dialing in the precision turns more without having this concern.

I know the gates are set for more squat boats that don't have this issue, and perhaps If I ate more tacos my boat would sit lower in the water, but you asked what would make it more appealing!

[yarnellboat]

Darn Milkman, sounds like you're not itching to come paddle with us at the T50 I agree it's great to run a river slalom-style, but 1 weekend a year a slalom race is a fun social event, different than a river run, and paddling actual gates is a lot different than making your own slalom moves - it takes a humbling level of precision to deal with the gates.

FullG, check the photo on the T50 site (which desperately needs to be improved), no accident that women's tandem is the first photo you see! Participation at T50 has been about 15 guys and 10 women.

I like open boat races because other courses (for slalom K racers)usually include a combo or 2 that open boats can't make. The course they set for us at T50 has some gates lifted above the canoe gunwales and set wider than standard.

Pat.

[jakke]

Just having some slalom events??

I'd like to participate in some, for the fun of it.

We did do some last year, with 3 oc's. Touches were not counted, just going through. Missing one was end of game. And it wasn't even whitewater, but it was good fun.

Well, slalom isn't really well spread here in Belgium, unfortunately.

[philcanoe]

For a total restructuring of all classes to occur. At present most slalom races are grouped by boat design primarily, with level of experience not being used to segregate those more experienced out of the way. This has created a vast number of classes, where at many events the same handful will gleefully race against new comers.

So I really believe it would be helpful, if the overriding ACA rules would recommend that those experienced should stay out of recreational level classes. Or even BETTER begin to enforce a top level structure (Experienced, Pro, or RACE) for these guys to only complete in. In this manner a beginner could test themselves against each other, while at the same time start building confidence, experience, and camaraderie.

The situation often arises where those with decades of experience, childishly still race against beginners. Simply because class structure doesn't include experience in the mix, and only rates the boat. At present many enter 6 classes (over 2 days) and never get into a RAC class. They will only enter REC classes, despite having won National and North American Championships (BTW - folks there's a lot of (many-many) classes, and therefore many many pseudo N.C'.s). This is way crazy, completely legal, and happens with near constant regularity.


(Note: Currently basic class structure is REC and RAC - with RECreational being ABS and HDPE boats, and RACe being canoes of any material) There is currently no other restrictions based upon experience, except for maybe one or two citizen events at nationals. This is to say - if you enter a REC class (Ocoee-Viper-Outrage-Probe-Nitro-etc) you may very well compete against guys who religiously train, because there is no criteria for past experience)

[sbroam]

I race for the fun of it and to see personal improvement - I'm not aggressively competitive, but if given the opportunity I could see myself becoming more competitive.

My problem is geography - I don't live near many races. The nearest venue of any regularity is the NOC which is > 4 hours away. Sure there is the Charlotte whitewater center but, honestly, I'm not of the caliber to be running the comp channel while making gates (esp in an open boat). There is a county park near Clemson (Chau-Ram) that advertises that it is a slalom venue, but I've never heard of a race there. We one had some gates hung on the Saluda, but the only suitable place (without putting posts in the river) was a flat water section between some islands.

So, I'll happily race when there's one close enough and I can make the trip.

[cheajack]

Having courses set up and left up and maintained so that novice racers could practice as their schedule allowed. Citizens races and club challenges are great and fun but usually allow only a few practice runs on race day.

[RodeoClown]

From a spectator standpoint, the 10 second penalty has to go. It's not very exciting to watch the top paddlers stop paddling, watch the stern of the boat go through the gate, then start paddling again. Saying that it rewards clean runs is like saying that a longer jail sentence would reward people who don't steal cars. The goal is still going to be fast and clean, no matter what the penalty is, but faster is more exciting to watch.

I don't see the top paddlers dominating the sport as a problem- at least at the nationals. That goes for either the race or rec class. At the local level is might be nice to split out the top paddlers from the newbies, but the nationals should be about who is the best, and how you stack up against them. It might be nice to have a class structure that's simplified so that we can point to one person and say 'that's the national champion.'