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Probe 11 vs. Outrage X
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:02 pm
First, I really appreciate the advice on my last thred about budget winterwear for paddling. Good stuff.
I've been paddling a Probe 11 for two seasons and I really like it. Its handling and maneuverability are awesome. But as I move from running rivers to playing rivers, I'm noticing that when I'm doing attainments or exiting eddys to set up for ferrying or surfing it's pretty challenging to get up to speed quickly.
I also seem to fill the boat with water most every rapid, but I do like to punch through the middle of holes/waves. I don't know if these things are simply me in the shallow part of the curve or if the probe 11 is a better boat for smaller folk. I'm about 200# right now.
I may have an opportunity to swap or buy/sell the Probe for an Outrage X. My concern is I'll lose the "snappiness" of the Probe 11 and that with better technique the issues I'm experiencing now with the Probe 11 will mitigate themselves. . I'm comfortable in bigger water class 3 to 3+ (pigeon on 3 turbines/nantahala falls) and in the next couple of years I'd like to progress to running smaller class 3 and 4 rivers/creeks (wilson's gorge/big laurel etc.).
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:05 pm
Don't do it. I think the Outrage is a great boat, the Outrage X is not.
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:15 pm
I've never paddled an 11 but I've paddled with them and I have paddled an X. You are definitely going to notice that the X feels and paddles much larger. It will attain speed if you outfit it light but they seem to me to be more of a big water boat than a creeking boat.
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:35 pm
The only advantage, small advantage at that is the X is a little faster. In exchange you would have a boat with no edges, hard to roll, less manuverable, sharper bow that shovels water in. They may have changed the X, I had one of the first ones out paddled it for a year and was happy to see it gone. I am not sure with current boat designs and paddling styles if a larger boat is any advantage in big water. I think the days of a "Big Water Boat may be gone"
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:02 pm
In regards to your feeling that the Viper is wet... It sounds like you aren't taking the "open boat lines" as some of my friends would say. Paddling an OC really rewards you for finding the seams between the holes and waves, but it's often not as much fun as going through the meat of things. Plus the photographers at Double Trouble on the Ocoee completely ignore you.
I haven't paddled a Viper 11, but I'd be surprised it is much wetter than an Ocoee or Outrage. If the boats are the same length, and similar bow volume, they won't be that different.
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:10 pm
The Ocoee is much dryer at 200 # with the upsweep of the bow and stern. The Prelude is also dry compared to Viper 11.Someday I wish Mohawk could change the mold on the Vipers so they would be a dryer boat.
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:22 pm
Look to trade for an Outrage. I'm 215 and think the Outrage is great, especially compared to the Probe 11/12. Its faster and more nimble. I haven't paddled an Outrage X so I can't compare to that. I'm suprised that the X isregarded to be so much more inferior to the regular Outrage.
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:45 pm
How did people jump to the Viper 11? The poster has a Probe 11. I'd be curious though if for his weight, sticking with Mohawks, if a Viper 12 might be a better boat. I also agree with the comment about choosing wet rather than dry lines. If you choose the wet lines you get wet. Part of the fun of paddling an open boat is learning techniques to paddle dry. This includes running dry lines, wave blocking, and fast reactions in confused water to keep your bow in the right direction for staying dry.
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:09 pm
Roll practice and an electric pump
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:44 pm
I don't find my Rodeo (~ Probe 10) to be unusually slow to accelerate. Something I've found helpful in that regard is the one stroke acceleration drills shown in the Kent Ford/Bob Foote/Wayne Dickert video "Drill Time". That video is still one of the best instructional values out there.
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:24 am
I think that he must have edited this thread, as I could have sworn it had viper 11 in the title earlier. On to the discussion. Depending on your size (less than 200 lbs) I would stick with the Probe 11, then move to a Viper 11 or one of the new plastic boats. You can do anything in a Probe 11. Creaking, big water, playboating etc... and learn a hades of a lot using that boat. Then progress on to a Viper 11 or detonator, Ocoee and be able to crush those boats. I am biased however as that is the progression I made. I Did all my hardcore boating in a probe11, now i just enjoy the viper 11
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:42 am
I have had an Outrage X for many years. It has the wooden gunnels. I mention that because there is a difference in the ends between the wood and vinly. The wood outfitting is wider on the ends than the vinly is. This helps it run drier but it is too sharp on the bow end to run very dry. You can work on your technique such as quartering and trying to lift the bow as you come into holes to help with running dry. I think the end shape that Mohawk uses on most of their whitewater boats cuts into the water and makes them wetter running than if they had fuller ends.
The Outrage X has a lot of speed. I love to attain with it. It surfs great. It fits in Micro with room to spare. I have paddled it down Wilson's at -3 with no problems. It doesn't have an edge if you are looking for that.
I weigh about 225. I think you will find that most boats are dryer with smaller people in them. Try to paddle as many different boats as possible. Don't be afraid to change the width of your thwarts to see if you can make a boat handle better for you.