C-Forum

Esquif Raven
I would appreciate some feedback on the qualities of the Esquif Raven as friend is considering buying one. She is looking for a first boat purchase that would be comfortable as 2+ to mid 3 river runner while she works on her skills.
So far she has paddled tandem and some solo.
Thanks. Einar

(If you have paddled them an oranges to apples comparison with an Outrage, Rival, and Detonator/Nitro would personally give me an idea)

A beginner boat. Sort of like the ride a Cadilac gives you, no feel for the road.
If she wants to progress this is probably not the boat for her. All the others you mention are a step up.



Big Al

If you check back a ways (maybe a year ago) on this forum, you will find a thread on this boat.




Big Al

There's a woman in our club who paddles one and loves it. I'm not sure why. She gave up her Rival for it. I'm guessing because it's very stable, dry, forgiving, and allows her to not make her line and survive. Not bad qualities in a boat. I paddled it once for a quarter mile. Not my cup of Royalex.

Based on the limited time I've seen of one I have to agree with Al ...

More of a cross-over boat from flat water to light white water. VERY Stable and forgiving in I - IIs - great for getting comfortable with WW in.
Pushes the driver in IIIs making it harder on the driver to learn the more critical moves (just not as snappy for banging eddies, surfing - front & side, or ferries on pushier water when you have to get from point A to B) for advancement into hard class river running.

My $.01 - some folks love them!

milkman wrote:There's a woman in our club who paddles one and loves it. I'm not sure why. She gave up her Rival for it. I'm guessing because it's very stable, dry, forgiving, and allows her to not make her line and survive. Not bad qualities in a boat. I paddled it once for a quarter mile. Not my cup of Royalex.

Our club has one, and some people really like it. We've had it out on high volume rivers, and it works well in that environment - i.e. it tends to push through big waves or holes in a stable way if facing them head-on. Beginners worked well in this boat and progressed quickly.

Others are commenting that it isn't edgy. True enough. But some paddlers don't like edgy. Think of some of the popular boat designs out there, and some of them aren't edgy.

I didn't like it, but depending on the paddler, I wouldn't discount it. Most paddlers in our area don't have the opportunity for paddling creeks, and this boat would suit them.

There are clips of a Raven being paddled in class II and III water in this video: http://youtu.be/ZUYwvcHDMyE

Thanks for the generous response, helping another paddler to start to surfing the learning curve.
Now to apply the money and get out there.
Einar

The role of a first boat is to help clarify what you want in your second boat. The Raven will do fine as a first boat.

The role of the first boat is to get you hooked and allow you to progress. It shouldn't be a shitty boat. This idea of a shitty boat being "good beginner boat" is messed up. No one excels at anything by setting the bar low. Put them in a boat that is responsive, surfs well and is really fun. Force them to reach a little. That's what new paddlers need.

Of course, what "forces them to reach a little" will vary hugely depending on the individual and the rivers, not everyone is FullGnarlz! But this feedback on the Raven should give a good ballpark for making that next part of the assessment.

Pat.

Personally I'm with Milkman on this one. Get out on river, have fun in something, it'll be become a passion and better boats will soon follow.

ian123 wrote:It shouldn't be a "poopy"* boat. This idea of a "poopy"* boat being "good beginner boat" is messed up..

I don't know about that, Ian. My first boat was a 17-foot Coleman. I got pretty good at peeling the boat off of rocks, popping the hull back into shape and rebending the aluminum back to where it belonged. Now I paddle mostly composite boats and I have to say (with some humble pride) that I am getting pretty good at repairing the hulls of my boats.

In all seriousness, get the boat you want to start paddling, Craig. It is likely that you'll be buying another boat in the future and you'll pick one that will challenge you better so get whatever gets you started now.

*edited because the filthy word filter did not filter the filthy word.

Einar wrote:Personally I'm with Milkman on this one. Get out on river, have fun in something, it'll be become a passion and better boats will soon follow.

Pretty much how it went for me.

A lot depends on the paddler......

I am in the process of learning in a bit of a challenging boat and that is good for me. There are days that I might wish for a more forgiving boat to go run something a little more challenging without swimming but what I have will make me better faster.

My wife is in a very forgiving kayak (she wanted a kayak) that maybe lacks performance on terms of maneuverability and surfability, but is easy to paddle and can blast through things really well. After one season she wants a slightly more performance oriented kayak but does not want to give up her original boat either because it is easy to paddle.

In the case of my wife, getting her too much of a boat to begin with may have discouraged her getting through the initial learning curve. The flip side of that is that she wants a different boat after only one summer. In my case, I have a boat that continues to challenge me and is fun, but I am an excellent swimmer and kinda bullheaded when I want something.

As a final note, you said that you are looking for a boat for a female paddler. I'm sure that you know this but the fit of the boat seems to be more critical for women than it is for men. For my wife a lot of the kayaks that she climbed into felt too large to her, even when the specs were spot on for weight and paddler size. Also, the weight of the boat is a bigger deal for most women. All of this to say, there are many factors to consider when choosing a boat and many of these factors are different for women than they are for men. Try to get her into a few different boats to get a feel for what is out there before buying.