Open Boat Enders

Decked Canoes, Open Canoes, as long as they're canoes!

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gumpy
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Open Boat Enders

Post by gumpy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:14 pm

A question for the folks in the chopped/cut/pinched crowd: what's your opinion on deck plates relative to ease of endering? I've seen old pics of boats with big long plates, and boats with none at all. does it matter?
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Craig Smerda
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Post by Craig Smerda » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:36 pm

not totally necessary if the hydraulic is big enough... but it doesn't hurt to have 'em. :wink:
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Post by gumpy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:57 pm

so you're saying that a biggish bow deck plate would make it easier? what about the 'scoop' theory? bs?
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Post by Smurfwarrior » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:35 pm

I've wondered the same thing. Excellent topic! On the SL'Edge I added big plates and didn't notice a change in being able to get the nose under in a small local feature but I've not tried it in a more powerful feature yet. I'm wondering if the plates help with controlling and spinning the boat when it's on end as the submerged end is more consistent and less grabby??

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Post by Craig Smerda » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:05 pm

Image

well... you don't necessarily "need" them really if your bags are blown up tightly and you aren't concerned about them imploding or possibly exploding.

the only reason I put deck plates on the latest boat is to keep it drier because the ends are lower than they come from the factory. plus I had a nice flat piece of Twintex. they also help cover up and protect the ends of the airbags. generally speaking 18" in length is more than enough.

Image

with all of the Edge's, Ocoee's, etc. that used to get cut down the plates were helpful for the same reason. an Edge is a low slung boat in the bow/stern... hence the deckplates.

Image
Image

one of the best enders I've ever seen was done in an Ocoee without deckplates... he cleared the water by a solid 2 feet... and broke a plastic fastex thigh strap buckle when he landed. :lol:

a few of these are borrowed pics from Phil Foti
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Post by gumpy » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:21 pm

smurf i was thinking the same thing pertaining to control or predictability with the bow under water. i'll have to do some more r&d :D
Joe

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Post by KNeal » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:44 am

Craig Smerda wrote:well... you don't necessarily "need" them really if your bags are blown up tightly and you aren't concerned about them imploding or possibly exploding.
As far as endering the boat is concerned, Craig pretty much answered it. I've gotten enders in my 14'6" Blue Hole Sunburst I (the yellow royalex, of course), but the bigger hole features made for the better more dynamic enders. I cannot say whether deckplates make a difference with rotating/pirouetting the boat, but I do not see how deckplates would help with that. There is still quite a bit of drag from the surface area around the bulbous ends of an open boat to contend with. Would love to see links of open boats doing 360 degree (and greater) pirouettes. :D
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Post by FullGnarlzOC » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:33 am

seems like it not getting answer what we are lookin for - rephrase - assuming we aren't looking at high quality holes like hades hole - would it be easier to ender the boat with no deck plate and just airbag? one would thing that the airbag once hit with water, would act as a scoop and bury the nose deep because of all the water that catches...

where as deck plates are going to shed alot of the force rather than absorb into oneself... anyone agree with this theory?
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Post by gumpy » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:02 am

FullGnarlzOC wrote:...act as a scoop and bury the nose deep because of all the water that catches...

where as deck plates are going to shed alot of the force rather than absorb into oneself... anyone agree with this theory?
there it is-the 'scoop theory'. any hydrophysicists out there care to chime in?
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Bobs Hole

Post by Einar » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:08 am

Richard Borek, in a Duraflex Viper 11
Bobs Hole rodeo, Clackamus River, Oregon
circa 1990, D. Froese photo

https://picasaweb.google.com/froese.don ... 2298933650

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Post by gumpy » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:14 am

those clipper vipers look sweet. appears to have stock plates
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Stock Plates

Post by Einar » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:14 am

Richard's appears to be stock V11 in that shot but he also used a modified glass V11. It's still around, giving someone wet grief as a river runner.

Lyle Dickieson had a custom Clipper kevlar V11 with a chopped down bow that he had made took to the Worlds 3 times. Nice boat, paddling it inspired me to pay for my kevlar V11 although I had it made stock @ 33 lbs.

In rodeo competition Tyler Elm used an Occoee with the midsection cut out and a cut down bow/stern. He also had a Mohawk Rodeo with a nose job. It's sitting in the sun in a backyard, rotting.
Kind of a shame as it looks very very "dynamic" ':o'
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Post by philcanoe » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:05 pm

Just wondering who's going to say fo'sure ? (not me)

Now this is just a guess, but there must be a very good reason thrusters are used by most every playboating decked boater (kayak -or- c1) that I know. Whether they are pro boaters, advanced, intermediate, or wanna=be beginner. What's a thruster? It's the insert or device used under a sprayskirt, to make it as hard possible. Thereby effectively increasing a boats overall deck length. Supposedly they make a incredible difference, for with them loops become possible for those who could not before. And I've heard or read, that loops are nearly out of range for many without them. Maybe I should not say it's a matter of hardness, for there could also be some mechanical advantage to having water pressing high up an end, instead of off the bottom. Of course these are personal observations, and certainly may not be true (:) JMHO)

Here's another...

Image

... these are 36inch foam cored carbon decks. They ring out loud when tapped, and are stiffer than the bottom of most any boat. They are even slightly arched, in order to increase their over resistance to deform under pressure (and of course primarily designed to shed water).
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    Post by TNbound » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:01 pm

    philcanoe wrote: Now this is just a guess, but there must be a very good reason thrusters are used by most every playboating decked boater (kayak -or- c1) that I know. It's the insert or device used under a sprayskirt, to make it as hard possible. Thereby effectively increasing a boats overall deck length.
    While I suppose a thruster does increase a boats deck length, the primary reason for one is to increase the volume of the boat.

    More volume = more buoyancy = more pop out of the water.

    Not sure a longer/stiffer deck plate would do the same thing. Seems to me it would just be providing a more solid object for the water to push against.
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    Post by eddyhops » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:17 pm

    gumpy wrote:
    there it is-the 'scoop theory'. any hydrophysicists out there care to chime in?
    do some enders + remove deck plates + do some more enders = answer

    I ain't no rocket scientologist
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