C-Forum

I pick up a nearly new Viper 11 about two months ago based on the recommendations and advice of some of the gurus frequenting this board (and a test paddle made possible by Tenzing). See http://cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7964479 It's been a wet fall in western Mass, so just yesterday I had my first day in the Viper. Took it out on Fife Brook section of the Deerfield River (Class II with one Class III). These are my initial thoughts comparing the two boats from this relatively inexperienced paddler.

Compared to the Nitro, the Viper has less primary stability, but seems to have equally good or better secondary stability. The Viper surfs well and is much faster, attains better, ferries really well and it doesn't spin around when you get it going like the Nitro does. It's easier to put it into small eddies, but it doesn't respond as quickly when you lean it. But the biggest difference is that the boat is much, much wetter. I filled it up to the gunnels in the first drop in the Class III Gap and it became uncontrollable, resulting in an out-of-boat experience.

The Viper has much narrower ends compared to the relatively bulbous ends of the Nitro. The Viper just dives right down into the water, which was the problem I had in the Gap: going down the first drop the nose of the boat just went straight down into the water and I was full. I've also noticed that there is a big difference is way the rocker is distributed along the length of the boat. On the Nitro, the bottom of the boat is a smooth continuous curve; on the Viper, most of the curvature on the hull is at the center.

In any event, I was really, really liking the Viper until I swamped it going down the Gap. Any thoughts from the veteran Viper 11 paddlers on how to keep the boat mostly empty on big(ger) water? Thanks. --=--Ed.

Hey Ed, this is Tenzing, I changed handles.

First off, I agree with what you've said about the Viper 11 and its attributes. It is definitely wet. Paddling it on the Dryway, the Savage, the LG, and the Cheat, I was glad to have a pump. When you paddle an Ocoee, you say, dam, I wish the Viper was this dry and turned this quickly, but you also lose the speed and the stability, so it's a tradeoff.

As far as dealing with water, here, in no particular order is how I've dealt with the problem.

Pump - get a decent pump so that when you are running continuous stuff like the Savage, you don't have to be constantly looking for an eddy.

Airbags - I went with 60" airbags. Best decision I've made with the boat. Because there is less water in the boat, I find that it is still manageable with water to the gunwales. A lot of times I'll play in a hole and fill the boat up, and then get it to shore with a full boat. It is a lot more forgiving when it is wet than an Ocoee or my old Probe.

Technique - I try, when I remember, to take big waves at a slightly less than dead-on angle. Some people call it quartering. I also boof the hades out of waves, to try and get myself up and over. When I do that, I run a fairly dry boat.

Driving - I got my butt handed to me on the first few rapids on the Cheat, because when I hit a big wave, I would brace and kill the speed, and then flip. PAC grabbed me and told me to hades with the brace, just paddle forward, and I saved myself from some swims at Pete Morgans and High Falls (don't ask about Colosseum or Teardrop...) The Viper 11 does demand a driver, it works best at speed. I know some of the new boats you can throw a last second boof and save your self, but my best runs in the Viper have been when I get the boat up to speed early and paddle with purpose.

Anyways, that's what I've thought after a half a season in a Viper. I still think it's a great boat, and I can't wait to get it on the UY and UG (goals for 2012)

Next year, Dryway or bust mate. We'll have a huge GDY post-Irene-paddle-the-sh!t-yes-I-called-the-Dryway-the-sh!t Fest

Cheeks wrote: Next year, Dryway or bust mate. We'll have a huge GDY post-Irene-paddle-the-sh!t-yes-I-called-the-Dryway-the-sh!t Fest

Hey, if you pick the right (wrong?) line through Dragon's Tooth, I think it's pretty scary looking. Never been that brave, myself.

Shep

At 220+lbs, my stratgey for keeping a Viper 11 dry was to stay out of it! Though I know other guys with similar builds & styles paddle it (Einar). Instead I looked at deeper boats like the Viper 12, Ocoee, Hellman Otter or L'Edge. But that doesn't help you much!

Probably good advice given above to paddle with purpose, don't ride a brace, and quarter & block some waves. Not sure how much the technique varies for different boats?

Pat.

yarnellboat wrote:Not sure how much the technique varies for different boats?

That's probably advice that can carry over to any of the short long/long short boats like the Viper 11, Outrage, Ocoee, Zephyr, etc. At the end of the day, your boat will paddle better if it is not full of water, so dry lines are definitely a worthy goal.

Better paddlers may disagree

I've been paddling a viper11 for 5 years now, but since 1.5 years paddling more my prelude.

Agreed that the Viper11 is not the driest canoe, but a lot depends on how you paddle it and the lines you run.
Not that I'm an expert, but timing of your strokes, angle corresponding to the waves, aiming for the eddy next to a hole instead of punching through.
I'm sure you can run a drier line in a viper11, given you run a decent line (and that does not mean avoiding all features) then just punching down in a Nitro.
For me it's quite clear, I prefer the Viper11 over the Nitro. The advantages and the fact that I think the Viper11 is well balanced feature wise are way more important to me then the dry running of the Nitro.

I actually think the Viper11 is still one of the best balanced (featureswise) canoe designs out there, including the fact it's not the most recent design.

marclamenace posted the link below in the Boofing Tips thread, which you may find very useful--staying dry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No1-IHON ... afe=active