C-Forum

Many times I've been told that no one canoes in California, Idaho, Colorado, and all the other great whitewater locales of the west. Everyone kayaks, no one canoes. Standard response.

Is that true, and if so why? The nature of whitewater out west, the prevalence of kayaks, the lack of connection to canoeing one might have in Canada or on the East Coast?

There are some people on this board from Cali, Utah, BC, etc. so there's got to be a few open boaters west of the Mississippi!

Chris

More boat builders on the east coast = more boats around and available for demo

And according to folks on the east coast, no one canoes here either:)

Two reasons that come to my mind are, next to the ones mentioned, the character of the rivers and the water temperature.
Eastern rivers tend to be more pool and drop, while Western rivers are more continuous, sometimes finding eddies to empty is a bit of a challenge. Eastern rivers, even in Canada, warm up nicely in the Summer, while most Western rivers stay cold, as they are more run-off and glacier fed.

TGG!

+2 on what both gonzo and Adam said. Different kinda water but not undoable by any means. Come to westfest, we aim to change things starting with that.

The southeast and midatlantic may be drop pool, but not the case in the northeast.

To me, canoeing is a flatwater thing first, then some people step up to whitewater.

So around here I think it's simply a lack of exposure to canoes... as kids, and as adults. Maybe that stems from a lack of good flatwater trips?

But it's not just geography. There's a generational component to this, too. The average age of canoe club members is rising.

Here in the North and the West Open solo canoeing is growing but still way more kayakers
Tandem canoe is pretty popular as people use their skills to get on trips..

A few reasons already mentioned as to why Open Boating is not more popular
Temp of water is a big one- You need a drysuit to progress up here, 3 swims with out a drysuit and you are pretty much done for the day. Owing a drysuit is a comitment.

Length of season here is very short, so you really have to get out and paddle hard. Limited access to short close by, 1-2 hr runs, makes it harder to paddle during the week. If you dont paddle 2-3 times a week it is hard to progress. Where as Weekend Warrior is better suited to kayaks.

Limited # of solo canoes available or rent so again you need to own you own which in the begining can my $. Hard to just try out.

It can be a challenge here to find other Open Boaters to paddle with.

It takes real dedication to progress and many do not have the time or fortitude to stick with it. Thye want results quickly and in a relatively short time some one can be paddling pretty good whitewater in a kayak. And used kayaks are much easier to come by.

Is C1 more popular than OC1 over on the west coast then, or is canoeing in general pretty uncommon over there? Because so far none of the reasons given would prevent people getting into C1, but I still get the perception it's pretty rare.

No, C-1 is certainly not more popular out West, though Piearre La Paddle is trying to change that! It doesn't get the love from open boaters or kayakers. Though a few kayakers may convert to C-1, it's mostly a tiny subset of the small ww canoeing community.

Cold water, continuous rivers, few mentors/instructors/events are all good reasons - the learning curve is a lot slower and more daunting when you don't want to swim, don't have good/diverse instruction, and don't have many friends to learn with. But I think Larry mentioned the biggest one - the lack of a big foundation of flatwater canoeists who grew up with canoes. In the Canadian context anyway, the geography out west doesn't lend itself to cottages and wilderness camping the way the rest of the country does. We have some manufacturers out here where I am (Western/Clipper and Hellman), so I'm not sure it's that.

Perhaps unique to Vancouver, but housing costs are so freakin' ridiculous here that quite a few people are also restricted by lack of storage space and/or lack of vehicle ownership. But we can paddle all yesr.

Where there are lots of canoe-campers, some become ww canoeists (and a few of them become C-1ers); without the big, broad foundation, fewer people are exposed to canoes and so there are fewer canoeists to "graduate" to ww (and C-1). For flatwater tripping, canoeing on the West Coast competes with sea kayaking as well as ww kayaking. Summer camps with legit canoeing programs grow ww canoesits, and that's missing out west (maybe because of icy water, continuous rivers and lack of camping opportunities - so it's kinda a chicken-and-egg thing).

It's a great place for ww canoeing once you're into and can find your away around with confidence, but getting into ww canoeing out here can be a tough nut to crack.

Pat.

If you dont paddle 2-3 times a week it is hard to progress

No wonder I suck

As the best boating in my area is in the dead of winter, I find exception that a little cold water would case this lack of manliness.

I've always considered the difference more of a cultural bias, as every time I've boated out west (although never west coast) people are amazed and want to see canoes in action. My last trip I had a couple extra boats along, and people readily jumped in. It's been pretty much the same, everywhere from Arizona to Utah to Colorado to Montana to Wyoming and Idaho too. It's hard sometimes to be taken serious, but usually there's a well traveled boater in the crowd, or a former eastern boater that will speak up and say let's go.

I do find the sentiment, that length of paddling season makes a difference. But that's true with deck'ed boating as well. It may be a wrongful generalization, but I've always sensed a difference in boating handling, in areas with all year boaters as opposed to the more seasonal.

Cheejack - what I meant is when u are starting out paddling the progress in canoes takes a bit longer than if u started in a kayak. If you do not paddle often it can be hard to develop quickly. If you only get out on the weekends and maybe not even every weekend you spend half the day relearning what u learned the last week. It also takes time to develop the power needed to get your boat to the next eddy especially when u are full of water. In this day an age people are into many activities- mountain biking, paddling, kite surfing etc etc they want activities they can progress quickly in. Solo Open boating is not one of them.

There are more youth kayak programs than solo canoe programs- mainly because of access to appropirate kids size gear. Yes I know about the Splash youth solo canoe but it is 4 times the price of a youth kayak. Kids get exposed and hooked.

Pat I thought BC had good Instruction base with RCABC? We have instruction up here that I would be willing to put beside any instruction anywhere. Maybe you need to come up to the Lapie River Extravaganza.

Not sure why c-1 is not more popular?

Also remember that there are a lot of western boaters - perhaps they'd rather be called 'boatmen' - who don't bother with kayaks either. Personal inflatables set up with oar rigs to accomodate multi-day trips are probably as common in the western U.S. as canoes are in the mid-Atlantic. If you wanted to get set up rowing rivers here in the east, you'd probably have as much trouble finding gear, advice and instruction as you would if you were starting to canoe out west.

Interesting. THat's remarkably more optimistic than what I was told by a friend who said, don't even bother coming out west with a canoe, you'll never be able to get on any trips.

And I'm excited for WestFest, I hope I can go, and I hope it turns into an annual thing!