C-Forum

Can anyone here compare the Probe 11 with the Esquif Raven?
None around here to demo. I will use it in class 3 water. I'm 170 lbs. Intermediate level paddler.
Thanks

I've reviewed the Raven as a Viper11 paddler, I know, not a Probe11, but comparable:

http://www.open-canoe.be/index.php/revi ... quif-raven

Bottomline for the Raven, for me, is that it's a very stable boat, but does not give much feedback from the river and is rather slow. The one thing that was exceptionally good here, from my point of view, is how easy it rolls.

I did paddle a probe as well, but not that often. The Probe11 is definetly faster, feedback wise from the river I'd say a bit better. And not that much wetter then the Raven. True, Viper11 and Probe11 don't have a reputation for dry running, but the Raven is not that good there either on somewhat bigger wavetrains.

For my preference I'd pick the Probe11 over the Raven, choosing out of the ones you proposed.

May I also ask why you consider a Probe11 and not a Viper11? The Viper series are not as radical as one might think. And compare the Viper11 to the Probe11, you'll probably learn more in the Viper11 then in the Probe11 because you get more feedback from the river.

But it all depends on what you want from a boat. I like responsive, hard chined boats.

Something like 15 years ago I paddled and like the probe but bought a viper because one can grow out of the probe quickly.

I think there are lots of other boats to consider, depending on your needs...Viper, Nitro, Zephyr,...

Some paddlers love Bob Foote design style, whereas others prefer the Frankie Hubbard style. That's the best difference in the raven vs. probe.

A lot depends on what features you like and what the water you paddle is like. The Probe series is soft chined which is what I like. Others prefer edge, but most self described intermediates don't. I'm guessing you plan on using it in big water since your location is Oregon. In that case I'd look for something that rides drier like one of the bigger Probes.

Hmmmm. Hard chine or soft chine? Long boat or short boat? I guess this is what I get for spending years paddling a Dagger Impulse. Thanks for the input, folks.

So here's a question for you that would enable us to better offer advice: what did you like about the Impulse and what did you not like about it?

I have bought an Esquif Raven last summer. Tried several other styles of boats to see what would work for me: Bell Occee, Esquif Vertige, Zephir and Nitro. Boat had to be big enough for tripping and small enough to play. I haven't tried the Probe but I can give you an idea on how the Raven feels.

The Raven glides and is very smooth, it's not a nervous boat. It has good initial stability and excellent second stability. You can tilt the boat all the way to the gun wells and not flip mon ami. Some say it's slow, not true. It's slower than some on take-off, but faster than most after that. It's like starting in third gear and then you quickly pass your buddies still stuck in second. Tracks and surfs like a charm. I like the way it reacts to water. It bobs over waves and doesn't just float over them like a corkscrew. I rarely finish a rapid backwards either. Out of all the boats I've paddled, the Raven is the easiest to roll. The only negative thing I would have to say is that it is a slow turning boat compared to the Occee or Zephir.

If you can, try them out first...on whitewater! I've tested the Nitro in mild current and liked it very much. Ran a few class IVs and found that the boat has zero tracking, is way too nervous, spins out of control all the time, floats like a corkscrew and is kinda hard to roll.

The Impulse is a better ww tripping boat than a playboat. Hard to turn in the midst of a rapid and slow to get across the river to the right entry point. Stable and comfortable ,yes. On a trip down the Trinity in Ca it paddled better with camping gear ( 40 lbs) than empty. I don't mind swimming but I'm on the river to have fun as well as challenges. Hard chines seem to demand more attention than soft chined boats do. I think I am going to just buy a good boat and work out the details on the water!

Most boats shorter than the Impulse, which is 12 ft 8in, will spin faster, but will be slower and not track as well. An Outrage, a river runner, at 12 ft will spin better, plus have about the same speed and tracking. An Ocoee, at 11 ft, will spin, give you lots of edge for eddying and peelouts, but not track well--but then you don't buy such boats for tracking. As you get down to Zoom and Prelude sizes (under 10'), you get boats that spin really fast, have good acceleration in a rapid, but don't have much glide. Boats similar in length to the Zoom and Prelude but wider, will generally be slower to accelerate, but more stable (more primary stability). As people in the forum have been saying it's great if you can get out and try boats. If not, buying a boat untried and learning its ways and then selling it if you're not happy with it and want to try something else is great for the general boating community. It gets more used boats in the marketplace.

RJohnson wrote:The Impulse is a better ww tripping boat than a playboat. Hard to turn in the midst of a rapid and slow to get across the river to the right entry point. Stable and comfortable ,yes. On a trip down the Trinity in Ca it paddled better with camping gear ( 40 lbs) than empty. I don't mind swimming but I'm on the river to have fun as well as challenges. Hard chines seem to demand more attention than soft chined boats do. I think I am going to just buy a good boat and work out the details on the water!

...Then you would like the Raven.