Time for as new boat and I have questions..

[mapturbator]

I've been running whitewater for the last five years or so in N. Ca in an Encore blessedly bestowed upon me by a nice tandem couple that didn't want to read about me and my Grumman in the local newspaper.

There is not many open boaters up that way that want to push the envelope so I've kinda learned in a vaccum. I am very comfortable in my Encore running class III medium to big water and was pushing class IV following some kayaking buddies when I was temporarily furlouged to Northern Wisconsin.

I have noticed that my Encore is a bit of an aircraft carrier by comparison to all these Ledge's and Ocoees here in WI. Even before I moved to WI I'd realized it was time for an upgrade. I'd like to invest in a smaller boat and could use some advice.

I took a trip back to Ca for the Cal salmon race and got to paddle a Nitro for a couple of days and liked it. It was a breeze to roll and ferryed like a rocketship with those sharp chines. It took on much less water than the Encore and was much easier to maneuver when I did get swamped. I understand Esquif makes a smaller version, the Detenator. I see mixed reviews on here concerning those.

I also got to try a few rolls in a L'edge and missed every one. I have no trouble rolling my Encore to the left and the Nitro to either side. I've read that the L'edge is super easy to roll. Not sure what I was doing wrong. (I had a hades of a time wedging myself into all that foam)

I'm not sure I understand the emphasis everyone puts on having "edges" or "carving". I do know that there were a few instances in the Nitro where I had to throw out some mega-hard low braces that I wasn't expecting and there was quite a bit of nuance to peeling out. Can someone explain the whole edge/carving for me taking into consideration that I've been paddling this round bottumed Encore?

[rainfoot]

There may be some helpful info here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7959287" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Shep]

I really like Tom Foster's video on open boating, but my dad argues that Tom is fixated... ("Can't roll that L'Edge? You should be trying to carve!")

If that's the thread I think it is, it does have some enlightening info about how hull shapes behave, and understanding how a "sharp" chine feels "loose" in the water.

On the rolling side, I do think it porbably has a lot to do with the outfitting. Bulkheads keep gaining in popularity, but they are definitely not for everyone. Are you able to run with some of the open boaters in WI and keep learning from them? You'll always learn way more on the river than the internet.

Good Luck!
Shep

[Craig Smerda]

Mike... just come over to Wausau for the next rec-release. I have a spare boat or two.

[TNbound]

I also got to try a few rolls in a L'edge and missed every one. I have no trouble rolling my Encore to the left and the Nitro to either side. I've read that the L'edge is super easy to roll. Not sure what I was doing wrong. (I had a hades of a time wedging myself into all that foam)

I've found that boats with flat sides/hard chines like the L'Edge can sometimes have a bit of a sticking point when rolling back up. Think of it this way: you have to get past the stability of the chine to flip, but you also have to get past it to roll back up. I'm sure that with some practice and direction you could have a good roll in a L'Edge. Rolls in shorter boats tend to be quick and snappy where rolls in longer boats like an Encore or Nitro tend to be slower and more of a sweep. Being able to get really into the outfitting helps as well. A foam bulkhead that is too tight makes it hard to get a true feel for a boat.